Thread: Impact grade timbers

Originally Posted by Exador

Another choice would be red stringybark, which is very strong, very hard, but quite springy. It's also quite dense. I have a piece of 40mm square about 600 long with a turned handle that I keep by the bed. The edges are still razor sharp 2 years after it was cut.

Craig,
That name rings a bell sounds like it could be another good wood to use i guess i'm still at the beginner level when i think of it at making things of this size so i guess trying out a few kinds of timber would be a good idea. I was talking to someone they said try using Loquat which grows everwhere here in sydney and i know the japanese have used it in wooden swords they also said kind of Aussie apple tree can't remember the name

Many thanks,
Alistair

Can you find out what properties make up the "impact grade"
To me the use of the work grade suggests a standard.
Once you/we have that info, is should be a matter of matching it to an Aus timbers specs.

What do you think?

Gidgee, if you can get hold of it big enough. I was given some by DarrylF and use it for a plane adjusting mallet, it's as hard as.

Originally Posted by Clinton1

Can you find out what properties make up the "impact grade"
To me the use of the work grade suggests a standard.
Once you/we have that info, is should be a matter of matching it to an Aus timbers specs.

What do you think?

Clinton,
Arhhh good idea i will have a look now and get back to you

Many thankts
Alistair

Originally Posted by Termite

Gidgee, if you can get hold of it big enough. I was given some by DarrylF and use it for a plane adjusting mallet, it's as hard as.

Yep gidgee is good but was told that it tends to be a bit brittle at times i was looking at buying a HNT gordon spokeshave and he makes then using gidgee wood i see but over all i hear good things about this wood very beautiful as well.

Thanks,
Alistair

Wandoo. Tough as nails and your machine blades will hate you.

Clinton,
i have found some good info on it from a martial arts based website this goes into what i've been asking about if you could take the time ti read the part about impact
http://www.aikiweb.com/weapons/goedkoop1.html

From what I know Appalchian Hickory is from a place (not a grade) and it is widely talked about, but actually not that great an improvement.

The guys who use bokken that I know talk about Japanese White Ash (from memory) so that might be something else worth considering...

Finally, I don't know why you are doing this - if it is for "play" martial arts that is fine - but keep in mind if you think that this is simulating a real weapon; most swords would have VASTLY different characteristics (and if you ever get a chance to pick up an antique (real) sword, you will be very suprised by how light and how flexible they are.

The argument about heavy weapon helping training for lighter weapons later is fine if you mean for fitness, but it actually doesn't help your real ability as you will be used to being slow moving and expect your weapon to behave very differently to reality.

The closest thing there is to "real" swordplay is historical fencing with either rapier (and a good one costs HEAPS) or with a foil - which is very similar to the French Smallsword, except you have to find the stiffest foil you can get as these days most foils are quite flexible to allow flick attacks from modern sport fencing...

Rant over.

Cam

Originally Posted by CameronPotter

From what I know Appalchian Hickory is from a place (not a grade) and it is widely talked about, but actually not that great an improvement.

The guys who use bokken that I know talk about Japanese White Ash (from memory) so that might be something else worth considering...

Finally, I don't know why you are doing this - if it is for "play" martial arts that is fine - but keep in mind if you think that this is simulating a real weapon; most swords would have VASTLY different characteristics (and if you ever get a chance to pick up an antique (real) sword, you will be very suprised by how light and how flexible they are.

The argument about heavy weapon helping training for lighter weapons later is fine if you mean for fitness, but it actually doesn't help your real ability as you will be used to being slow moving and expect your weapon to behave very differently to reality.

The closest thing there is to "real" swordplay is historical fencing with either rapier (and a good one costs HEAPS) or with a foil - which is very similar to the French Smallsword, except you have to find the stiffest foil you can get as these days most foils are quite flexible to allow flick attacks from modern sport fencing...

Rant over.

Cam

Cam,
yep japanese white oak i have owned japanese white oak swords and i have always found them to be okay i am using them for training but the reason why i would like to make them are many both the skill that goes into making them the a deep understand of the weapon the geometry the timber to be used i understand that wood could never feel like a real sword wood is nothing like metal i have been training in sword arts since i was 14 but i started in the japanese styles i've been very lucky to train under some very skilled people but i'm no where neer the point of their skill the style i train in is a very aggressive and little known style but after many years using these wooden swords i would like to start making them for my own use but i want them to last.
As for historical fencing what kind are we talking about my experience with fencing hasn't been all that great not to say that they are not skilled at what they do but fencing was the main reason everyone thinks westen style swords before fencing were not sharp and were heavy and only used for stabbing movements

Many thanks
Alistair

Originally Posted by Ikkyu

Cam,
yep japanese white oak i have owned japanese white oak swords and i have always found them to be okay

Many thanks
Alistair

How about Japanese red oak?

Craig,
Japanese red oak tends to have more knots in it then japanese white oak so it is harder to find good bits of it also seems to warp less out of japanese woods the best is sunuke or another hardwood called tetsuboku i had one of these for years but so far the sunuke tends to be the best what few people know in the westen world not all japanese style martial arts use white oak weapons cos they don't last hard use very well some swear by japanese white oak but dealing with it has been only okay red oak looks nicer then white oak but is no stronger say but when it comes down to it the looks of a weapon are only skin deep it's weight balance and if it stands up to hard use are more important then looks

Thanks
Alistair

Cam,
Also what i forgot to say training with a heavy wooden weapons is only for suburi which is lone training the swords are not over heavy more of the time alittle over a 1kg yep and i know about what heavy weapons can do to your skill speed and timing it's like the old boxing rule of not wearing heavy gloves if you are going to fight with light ones it will only throw timing out like weight training for boxing or other hand to hand martial arts if done the wrong way it can throw everything out power timing speed but if you train using them the right way eg. explosives power training uses alot of weight and most boxers use this kind of training the same thing goes for the suburito if it's used right you will gain skill learn how to relax your body when it wants to be tense and so on so you can go through the cutting movments soomth clean and relaxed after all really speed comes from a relaxed body.

Thanks Alistair

From a few searches (I've got 16 damn Explorer window open ) "There is no such thing as Impact Grade Hickory." http://www.woodenswords.com/faq.htm#...do%20you%20use?

For lack of a better description, the designation "Impact Grade" Hickory refers to a source of regional varieties selected according to subspecies from a small area in the Central Appalachians where trees are selected that yield wood with properties suitable for martial art equipment

Janka ratings are in either pounds per square inch (US) or KiloNewtons (AUS). I found a site that had it all in the US expression.
Janka rating relates to splintering when under impact.

Hickory seems to have a Janka rating of 1820 lbs per square inch.
Jarra is 1915, Sydney blue Gum 2025,Spotted Gum 2473.

The density of hickory is 750 Kg/m3. Jarrah 835, SBG 850, SG 1010.

Apparently the denser the timber the more likely it is to snap.

So, clear straight grain, and matching specs to hickory seems to suggest Jarra.

Originally Posted by Clinton1

From a few searches (I've got 16 damn Explorer window open ) "There is no such thing as Impact Grade Hickory." http://www.woodenswords.com/faq.htm#...do%20you%20use?



Janka ratings are in either pounds per square inch (US) or KiloNewtons (AUS). I found a site that had it all in the US expression.
Janka rating relates to splintering when under impact.

Hickory seems to have a Janka rating of 1820 lbs per square inch.
Jarra is 1915, Sydney blue Gum 2025,Spotted Gum 2473.

The density of hickory is 750 Kg/m3. Jarrah 835, SBG 850, SG 1010.

Apparently the denser the timber the more likely it is to snap.

So, clear straight grain, and matching specs to hickory seems to suggest Jarra.

Clinton,
Thank you so much for the help and the work you went to i'm very thankful this makes things alittle more clear i have some wooden daggers i've made out Jarra it's a nice wood i must say as i said i'm no master of wood hmmmmm well i guess i'm going to have look into some more tho

Thank you so much Clinton you've been very helpful
Alistair