Thread: Impact grade timbers

Originally Posted by Exador

I have a heap of good bits of it if you're interested. No knots, straight grain. Some of the slabs have a bit of checking whilst drying and some of the larger (100 x 100) have twisted and shrunk quite alarmingly, although most of the 150 and 200 x 50 is fine

I have to keep that in mind i also just found out another good timber is red gum but it's tends to warp hehehe my head is spinning with all this new info
but thanks anyway i will keep that in mind right now i have two slabs of jarrah

Thanks
Alistair

Originally Posted by Ikkyu

Hi Zed
I have seen some pics of lancewood but know very little about balance and geometry of a wooden sword is very important i one have sword from japan made out of a hard wood called sunuke i'm yet to break it this one is heavier then most woodenswords i've used but the blade geometry and balance are beautiful which makes it a fast weapon it has broken 3 swords so far but i will look into the lancewood whats it like to work with any info will do best angle to use on my plane blades and so on and if you have a pic the one you made i'd love to see it

Many thanks
Alistair

Is Red lancewood another name for Cooktown Ironwood? I have some timber which was sold as ironwood (a very apt name as its heavy and hard). Very densely grained and strong, but with a tendency to chip and split when being worked. Comes up beautfully when sanded and polished.

Cyclone brand chip-hoe handles are a two-piece lamination of spotted gum (from my understanding).
I think it'd make a good wacking stick, with enough meat on it to be able to shape a sword shape. About 6 foot long.

Originally Posted by Clinton1

Cyclone brand chip-hoe handles are a two-piece lamination of spotted gum (from my understanding).
I think it'd make a good wacking stick, with enough meat on it to be able to shape a sword shape. About 6 foot long.

Clinton,
Yeah i have seen what you are talking about i used to work in a hardware store that did alot of gardening tools and we sold alot of Cyclone stuff i've seen how it's treated in transport but over all Cyclone gear seems to be great stuff i know i sound like a fussy but what i need is a 25mm thick plank of the timber or something close that way i can mark out the shape the blade and get the balance right

Thanks
Alistair

Exador,
Should we ask why you keep a lump of timber by the bed??

I wouldn't use Jarrah, it tends to explode in a nasty fashion (a bit brittle). Karri is a similar wood and generally a better choice (as is spotted gum).

As for the training, it is good to see you understand what you are doing and why (I just wanted to clear that up)... Unfortunately many people think what they are doing is "realistic" but it is far from the truth. It sounds like you have your head screwed on righ though!

Now, as for Western MA:

Historical Fencing is rapier and after. It uses swords such as French Smallsword, Backsword, Epee, Cavalry Sabre, Rapier, Foil and Scottish Broadsword. The basic premise is fight like they were real. You try to stay alive rather score cheap points.

Classical Fencing is Foil, Epee and Sabre (although you do get some of the other ones too). It uses the standard ideas of fencing (ie score hits) but focuses more on "good hits" so they don't usually use electronic scoring and a touch only counts if the sword bends noticeably. i.e. No flick attacks.

Modern Fencing or Sport Fencing is what you see in the olympics where people obviously don't treat the weapons as real and they do all kinds of flying lunges where both people get hit, but the idea is to hit your opponent first. Grumble.

NOW, (while I am hijacking the thread). If you look at historical swordplay such as longsword, two handed sword, bastard sword etc. There are two schools of thought (once you get to real weapons).
1. Do what feels right - generally not very accurate I would guess.
2. Study texts from the time. This can be really useful and a lot of fun. You will find that there was a lot of wrestling that went into swordplay as well.

As for the swords, the swords generally weren't heavy (or not as heavy as they are made out to be). A 1kg sword would be considered heavy. THE source of information on medieval swords is Ewart Oakeshott and he has written several books where the swords are all defined and classified. Good book, but it is strictly a text book (not something most people would enjoy simply reading).

Cam

Ikkyu,
I was wondering what are the chances of you posting some pics of these swords?

I for one would like to see them.

Cheers Ian

Originally Posted by Jim Grant

Exador,
Should we ask why you keep a lump of timber by the bed??

Swatting rats.

Originally Posted by Jim Grant

Exador,
Should we ask why you keep a lump of timber by the bed??

Swatting rats.

Must have big Blinkin' Rats in Brisvagas

Originally Posted by CameronPotter

I wouldn't use Jarrah, it tends to explode in a nasty fashion (a bit brittle). Karri is a similar wood and generally a better choice (as is spotted gum).

As for the training, it is good to see you understand what you are doing and why (I just wanted to clear that up)... Unfortunately many people think what they are doing is "realistic" but it is far from the truth. It sounds like you have your head screwed on righ though!

Now, as for Western MA:

Historical Fencing is rapier and after. It uses swords such as French Smallsword, Backsword, Epee, Cavalry Sabre, Rapier, Foil and Scottish Broadsword. The basic premise is fight like they were real. You try to stay alive rather score cheap points.

Classical Fencing is Foil, Epee and Sabre (although you do get some of the other ones too). It uses the standard ideas of fencing (ie score hits) but focuses more on "good hits" so they don't usually use electronic scoring and a touch only counts if the sword bends noticeably. i.e. No flick attacks.

Modern Fencing or Sport Fencing is what you see in the olympics where people obviously don't treat the weapons as real and they do all kinds of flying lunges where both people get hit, but the idea is to hit your opponent first. Grumble.

NOW, (while I am hijacking the thread). If you look at historical swordplay such as longsword, two handed sword, bastard sword etc. There are two schools of thought (once you get to real weapons).
1. Do what feels right - generally not very accurate I would guess.
2. Study texts from the time. This can be really useful and a lot of fun. You will find that there was a lot of wrestling that went into swordplay as well.

As for the swords, the swords generally weren't heavy (or not as heavy as they are made out to be). A 1kg sword would be considered heavy. THE source of information on medieval swords is Ewart Oakeshott and he has written several books where the swords are all defined and classified. Good book, but it is strictly a text book (not something most people would enjoy simply reading).

Cam

Cam,
Good morning thank you i hope my head is screwed on right hehehe i should say that i know little of western martial arts and sword fighting i looked into it just to get the other side of the story. Swordmanship is not just training with the sword you need a deep understanding of the self and the right mind set and i try hard not to conform the local dojo trend where you walk into a dojo and you become a warrior you train 4 nights a week and you have a deep understanding of these arts. I have been lucky to travel over seas and traing with some great people. Eastern martial arts have lots alot of their real meaning of their martial arts like what has happened in china they now have whushu sword play which uses cheap flippy floppy swords this has done alot to hurt the chinese sword arts eg. most people think chinese sword fighting masters are Jet Li spinning a sword around looking cool. Swordmanship works on the whole base you should always carry this mind set when not armed with a sword. As for sword arts being realistic well swords are no longer used in combat and we can't run around trying to cut each other down to test our skill. In japan swordmanship has lost whatever combat value it had most of these arts train with the spirt and mind set which helps us live a better and deal with life but true martial arts are another thing altogether training with the sword and being skill in hand to hand combat and so on hard training the will to learn, a humble mind set and a passion to really understand what you are doing.

My rant is over not
Alistair

Friends,
First thank you all so much for your input as for what timber i will use i might go for the spotted gum and see how it runs what i'll need to know now is where i can get good quality air dried spotted gum i live in sydney but i will travel for good timber.

Thanks
Alistair

Originally Posted by Pat

Must have big Blinkin' Rats in Brisvagas

Mate, you never know what sort of rat you might run into.:eek:

Hi

I have been looking at this same question myself getting to know australian hard woods suitable for Japanese wooden training swords (Bokken or Bokito).

I meet a gentleman here in Melbourne who makes bokken out of Gidgee when his health allows. I have seen one of these swords and it was a most beautiful pice of work.

However if Gidgee is prone to being brittle it is hardly a choice. I know of a group who make bokken in Sydney out of Spotted Gum a few of the people who train in my school have them. Spotted gum seems to have a good "mechanical properties" and is easer to work with then some of the more harder woods.

I just completed my first attempt at a Bokken in a Kashima Ryu Style (Kashima is a famous Shinto Temple in Japan and the home to three major Koryu or Old School swords that date back over 600 years). Its totally straight (were most schools have a curve to their blade) and very thick making it suitable for the full impact training at high speed as found in the Kashima Koryu's.

I simple dropped into a hardwood store and picked up a very straight grain piece of Grey IronBark. I have had a go at sparring against some Japanese White Oak Bokken (the sound is terrifying and the fear that at any moment the Japanese White Oak bokken will smash even at low impact is all to real). The Grey IronBark came up a treat and shows to signs of crush or tend on impact. (However only long term testing will show if it is prone to being brittle)

I will post a photo soon of my Kashima Ryu bokken.

My research has so far given my three Australian hardwoods that are good candidates.

1- Spotted Gum
2- Grey IronBark
3- Grey Box

I will have to research more into Gidgee before I can make my mind up on it.

See attached is a chart of most major commercial Australian hardwoods.

Now in regards to Japanese training swords. No one would ever claim that a wooden training sword would serve the purpose of replacing or mimicking a real sword, not at all. Their are dozens of varieties of bokken and bokoto used by various Ko-ryuha (old schools i.e. Tatsumi-Ryu, Yagua Shinkage Ryu, Kashima Shin Ryu) and gendai budo (modern schools i.e. Kendo, Aikido). Each school has its own mindset to combat and therefore uses bokken that reflect that approach. Heavy and straight for the likes of Kashima to light and nimble for Yagua Shinkage Ryu.