Thread: Paulownia timber all things about it.

G'day mate,
I grow Paulownia elongata myself in Indonesia. I think I'm thefirst one who do that in Indonesia. I got it from World Paulownia Institute , USA.

About the cubications , tell you guys frankly , I don't have any experience myself because for Paulownia I've just started this year. But the data I got from WPI , with proper maintenance ( & fertilizing ) , at chest height in 5 years Paulownia elongata would reach 30 cm diameter ( 0.35 - 0.38 m3 trunk / log ) . At 8 years would reach 45 cm diameter , and 0.55-0.6 m3 log.

But for other species , like Paulownia tomentosa , Paulownia kawakamii , Paulownia fortunei , because the trunk is shorter , cubication is much less.

Might be good if you check on the species if you want to wait that long to grow them.

Best regards,

Rudy

Hi Rudy,

My plantation is fortunei and because of regular pruning I got trunks up to 6 metres.

What I have found is that the suppliers of the plants provide information for the end result based on perfect cultivation/conditions. These conditions are seldom able to be duplicated in a commercial plantation situation and so the growers expectations are seldom achieved.

From my observation here in Australia each plantation big or small has achieved different results for different reasons and as such has to be evaluated individually before estimating what timber has been produced within a specified time.

John

John I understand where you're coming from, with the different factors to effect the outcome of size.

I'd have to assume that as they where planted as an 'invest plantation' then they where probably dones 4x4 as you mentioned earlier. The plantation concern apparently went broke and informed my 'customer' that they would have to harvest/process and sell the timber themselves instead of the plantation people doing the harvesting/processing and selling.

With you being involved so much with Paulownia you probably know what/where/who it may have been doing the original plantation, but as I say my potential customer 'invested' $10,000 to plant an amount of Paulownia and the plantation people where supposed to take care of everything from planting to fertilising, pruning, thinning, harvesting, processing and marketing the timber, then I presume give a return of some kind back to my potential customer.

I was asking about possible sizes as the plantation is a good distance away and wasn't prepared to drive out there just to look at it, I wanted a bit of a idea what the potential could be.

If using 4x4 plantings and 2 ha, this equates to around 1250 initial trees. with two thinnings does this mean that a third of the initial trees would be left standing? or how does thinning work?

I have a landline, but at times it is unbearable, I'll give you a ring if there is any more interest from the potential customer.

Thanks

Allan

Hi Allan,

From your comments I feel the plantations was done by Qld. Paulownia Forests who went into liquidation. My understanding was that the liquidators sold the land and the trees remained. I will not give an opinion as to the legal ownership of the trees at this point of time. All the plantations managed by QPF were planted on a 7 x 4 grid but I don't know their policy for thinnings.

My brother was one of their investors and I have copies of the independant forestors reports up to 2002. There were 6 different plantation each started at a different time with quite different results. I was also informed that some plantations had no worthwhile value when the company went into liquidation. You need to find out from the investor which plantation his tress were in and exactly where his plot was located within it then.

This still may not solve the problem as there were considerable variation in growth rates within each plantations. Had the scheme gone onto finality all investors would have shared equally in all the trees within the plantation but if he wants his then I believe he would have to harvest what is in his allocated plot be it good or bad.

The other concern I have is that it is a few years since QPF went into liquidation. To my knowledge no one has been tending the trees (pruning) so what timber there was originally would now be devalued .

My brother wrote his his investment off and forgot about them.
Hope this helps
John

G'day Mr. Whitewood,
I believe so that seeds suppliers often give ideal conditions displayed. But another thing is , Indonesia's soil is very vertile , and seems what I grow , often more than what I expected. Please try to look at my posting in timber section , Giant Hibiscus tree. Have you seen any of Hibiscus macrophilus with diameter of 30 cm chest height and the clean trunk about 11 meters before first branching ? If I take a picture only with man standing next to the trunk , some people might think that's some sort of royal palm trunk. And the older ones , that reach diameter of 80 cm , the trunk before first branch are about 30 meters.
In here , we usually set the planting space just about enough of mature 3 - 4 years canopy size. So , for Albizia falcattaria , teak , and many other species , we plant 3 x 3 . The locals even get worse , they often plan Albizia falcataria 1.2 m x 1.2 m distance ( this one will took 2 x longer to harvest time ). But what we find out is , if we're sure that the soil is fertile enough , and we add more of cattle compost fertilizer , 3 x 3 space makes the trees compete to get more sun light exposure than others. Then what we see often is a diameter of 5 - 7 cm trunk , but the height reach more than 8 meters. For my Hibiscus & Albizia plant , usually they slow down after they reach canopy height of 8 - 10 meters ,then building the diameter of the trunk. At that time we do thinning of 15 - 20 % of the un-straight trunk only , so the trunk build even faster.
I think somehow that's the nature benefit around my country.

About the growth of Paulownia elongata , I've also checked in Panama and America. I'm quite sure that Paulownia elongata is definitely the one for fastest growing trunk length & diameter. I think some plantations in Australia also cultivate elongata.

Best regards,

Rudy

Rudy,

I don't profess to be an expert on anything. I am just a member of the forum that has grown, milled and sold paulownia and it is in this capacity I have answered a few questions from members about this timber. I don't want to get into a debate over farming techniques in different countries. For me it's horses for courses. I have learnt a lot during my 10 year involvement and would do things differently if I was starting again and knew what I do now.

I did look at your earlier post and was quite impressed but at my age it is too late to change mounts. Good luck with your project I hope it turns out well.

John

G'day Sir,
I'm really sorry,Sir....I am not trying to be an expert or something. Just a rookie that too excited to share my poit of view. I'm afraid I still have the anxiety of a teenager , although my own kids now are teenagers....Just can't hold my horses right sometimes. Please do forgive my neglectance. I get very excited when I read your postings on Paulownia. I haven't been in the same position yet....I often looked at my seedlings and hope they grow much faster to see how beautiful they are at spring....I really read closely on everything you post about Kiri to be able to learn more for the future. Hope to learn a lot from you , Sir. I don't even have enough credit ( and I don't reckon myself worthy anyhow ) to start any debate to anybody in this forum. All people are an expert in their own rich experiences.

Rudy

Originally Posted by whitewood

For those who don't know of me I grow, mill and sell Paulownia. .

[quote=Sigidi;947329]
thought I'd put this q here - At a no obligation to you guesstimate, how large would a paulownia grown in a plantation get to in around 13 years?

My experience is limited but I can quote the sizes of the logs in my yard. They all came from the one site. The largest was 89cm diameter (centre diameter of a 6.5m log) and the smallest was 30 cm centre diameter. Plenty of logs with better than 45cm diameter. They were harvested after 17years. Can't provide much info beyond that but boy it's great stuff to cut. I'll take a pic and post it for you.

cheers
Steve

Yeah John thanks for your help and knowledge.

Hopefully it sounds like it will be worthwhile at least finding out more from the potential client

Allan,

I was talking to a guy this morning who has visited the plantations recently. He felt that there would not be 500 trees over 30 mcs in the 2 largest plantations. On this basis I would not hold much hope for your customer. There is also the question of who owns the trees today. I don't think your customer does now that the liquidators have disposed of the 'assets'.

John

What about the flexibility of Paulownia. I'd like to find a timber suitable for making primitive style archery bows. Anyone know anything about that?

Originally Posted by thegardener007

What about the flexibility of Paulownia. I'd like to find a timber suitable for making primitive style archery bows. Anyone know anything about that?

Paulownia is not regards as a structural timber. It is not strong enough. Despite the fact that I sell Paulownia I don't understand many of the terms and measurements used to provide detailed information about timbers. I copied these from a now defunct web site of a timber retailer.

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The forum format will not allow me to copy them. (too many images whatever that means) I tried editing the information but if I left and more out the information would have been useless. If you want the data send me an email and I'll copy it on to a reply.


There is another web site I visited that has a very lengthy paper on the comparative properties of a number of timbers. It is www.privateforestry.org.au/camwp.

My unqualified opinion for what it is worth is that Paulownia would not be suitable for bows. Don't know how it would be if it was laminated up in thin strips with epoxy to give it extra strength but I suppose it would not meet your criteria as a primitive bow. It maybe suitable for the arrows . I'll leave you to do your on research and make the decision yourself.

Whitewood

Cheers for that. That link will come in handy. I got another great answer to what I was looking for in another thread. Seems Spotted Gum is good for boy making. But the link to comparative properties will be excellent for helping me find others.