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Thread: A question on cedar
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13th June 2014, 03:08 AM #1New Member
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A question on cedar
Hello,
I was wondering if anyone could hazard a guess at a species identification. I have salvaged timber from a couple of railway carriages built by the Victorian Railways at Newport in 1886 for the Intercolonial Express that ran between Melbourne and Adelaide. Historical information says that the carriages were built from cedar. Outwardly, the timber appears to be cedar in its grain characteristics, but it is light brown in colour and harder and heavier than red cedar. When it is burnt or cut it gives off a disgusting smell like burnt rubber. This timber was used throughout the carriages for most framing, all external panels, and windows and doors. The second class compartments were lined in kauri lining boards whereas the first class compartments were lined in polished Huon pine, red cedar and this particular timber. The timber appears to be extremely durable and has survived the damp better than the red cedar.
Does anyone have an idea of what this timber could be?
Thanks,
Pitsawn
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13th June 2014 03:08 AM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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13th June 2014, 09:52 AM #2GOLD MEMBER
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Experienced in removing the tree from the furniture
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13th June 2014, 11:17 AM #3New Member
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rod1949,
Point taken, but any picture would suggest that the timber is cedar. I have sat pieces beside nineteenth century cedar furniture and there is no obvious difference except the colour - but I have a chest of drawers that is a similar brown yet has the fragrance and softness of red cedar. I assumed the carriage timber was a similar brownish red cedar until I cut it for the first time and it gave off an acrid smell. It is the physical properties, not the visual ones, that distinguish it from red cedar - it is harder, heavier and it stinks.
Pitsawn
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13th June 2014, 08:06 PM #4
it's probably real Aust Red cedar harbouring a century's worth of tobacco smoke
regards from Alberta, Canada
ian
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21st June 2014, 06:39 PM #5GOLD MEMBER
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Onion cedar or onion wood. Not to be confused with Spanish
cedar. Harvested and sold along with Aust red cedar. Used by the
Railway for lesser grade cedar work ie framework etc.
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21st June 2014, 11:45 PM #6
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22nd June 2014, 11:49 AM #7Senior Member
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Onion wood
Sorry Mapleman but I think you'll find that Onionwood (that was substituted for Toona ciliata) is Owenia cepiodora and Miva Mahogany is Dysoxylum rufum (mollissimum). Onionwood is extremely rare nowadays - only a handful of locales mostly in Northern NSW. MM was very common around Kin Kin where I'm located. It is reputedly one of the worst timbers for producing allergic responses - most sawmillers wouldn't touch it. I expect Rustynail would know something of its reputation! Whoops! Just found a reference stating Onionwood is another name for MM but the Onionwood used in carriages is Owenia cepiodora.
Regards, TimbozLast edited by timboz; 22nd June 2014 at 11:55 AM. Reason: new info
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22nd June 2014, 12:24 PM #8
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22nd June 2014, 04:23 PM #9
has the OP tried washing a small piece in metho or warm soapy water
I'm still thinking the smell is either a finish or tobacco smokeregards from Alberta, Canada
ian
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22nd June 2014, 04:42 PM #10Senior Member
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Acacia aulocarpa
I haven't milled any aulocarpa but I've been eying off a big fella that has fallen over on my block. I'll have to sniff him out when I get around to milling him. Incidentally I always think that blackwood has a feint smell of strawberries and there is a desert acacia called Rasberry Jam!
Cheers, Timboz
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24th June 2014, 03:16 PM #11New Member
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I cut down framing timber from one carriage to repair the frame of an 1840s fire surround and it gave off an acrid smell. It's definitely more like burnt rubber than onion, although the age of the timber could be a factor. It's quite an unpleasant smell and stays in your clothes for hours. The timber burns to white ash.
I have since dressed an external panel with the same result. The interior surface of the panel was coated in grey primer but the outside surface had long since lost all its paint and had weathered to grey - it smelt when dressed. The two carriages (75AB and 77AB) had sat on the ground in South Gippsland since the early 1960s and were in a state of collapse due to the disintegration of their oregon longitudinal frames. They were open to the wind and rain so I think any odours from tobacco would have long gone. There were red Baltic lining boards, as well as kauri, Huon pine and red cedar, and none of these gave off the same smell when worked.
There were six of these carriages built in 1886 and one survives at the railway museum at Newport.
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