Thread: Red Ebony

Dalbergia Retusa is actually Cocobolo... and yes, it's one of those woods that absolutely needs good extraction while being worked.

There's an old joke about it: "There are two types of people in the world; those who are allergic to Cocobolo and those who will be."

Granadillo (Platymiscium Ulei), doesn't have half the health risks of Cocobolo attached although it looks nearly identical and has similar working characteristics... and is often used as a Cocobolo substitute for those very reasons. I've often heard Cocobolo being celled Granadillo and both being called "Nicaraguan Rosewood."

Can't say I've ever heard of either being called 'Red Ebony' but that's nothing unusual, what with all the common names in use nowadays.

So... now that I've muddied the waters, any particular info you're after?

Hi Skewy,

That's just what I wanted to know. At one site they had Cocobolo and Grenadillo listed as two timbers, but no Genus or species. Somehow I ended up at a Croquet mallet site and thay called it Cocobolo as well. Its available as Red Ebony veneer from a Mainland Chinese Timber trader as well. Don't know if you've used or seen it, but it is very dense (sorta like Macassar and Ironbark fused) and the finished colour is going to be superb as something like an inlaid panel on a table top or as door panels in a cabinet. Because of the richness, the difficulty will be finding another timber to carry it.

Thanks again (the health issues were a real worry as well)

Rob

Originally Posted by Flowboy

Hi all,

Today I made a visit to Mathews Timber in Vermont, Melbourne and purchased a piece if "Red Ebony" ($32.00/25x250x1000mm). In my careenings through the web, I find it is actually Dalbergia retusa which is a tropical American timber often called Grenadillo(a). It's very dense and when finished will be a rich blood red with black and orange "highlights". It apparently makes good flutes and electric bass fingerboards.
Apparently people can react badly to its dust, such that a mild dermatitis followed by severe sensitivity to the timber results. Anyone have any further info please? Should have posted a pic, sorry.

Regards

Rob

Gday Rob, I got a piece of "Red Ebony" exactly the same size from Matthews Timber about 7 years ago. I used half of it for some mouldings around the top of a bedside cabinet, the rest was Rock Maple... It is apparently twice the hardness of Jarrah . I still have half the board left.

I'm 95% sure that it is actually Cooktown Ironwood (Erythrophleum chlorostachys) and Red Ebony is a name not too often used for it. It was called Red Ebony when I bought it...I believe it comes from Nth Queensland into Darwin, and I think there is a mill up there called the Red Ebony mill....

someone else will float along with some more info.....have a look here

yeah i have some of it, its probably new Guinea red ebony commercially avilable in Oz, i got mine from woodworld..

http://www.woodworld.com.au/timber_t...ails.htm?id=28

http://www.gilmerwood.com/photo%20html/Ebonyphoto.htm

its comes from New Guinea even to the same species grows in Nth Qld but is rarley available, PNG it forested form old growth..

yes its nice stuff, yrs sounds like the same..

u might wanna ask yr guy where it comes from

cheeeers
john

Flowboy I can confirm 100% that Red Ebony is Cooktown IronWood. I picked some last month, most beautiful timber. I know because I asked if they had any Cooktown IronWood, and Matthew's telling me that Red Ebony is just what they call it down South. Google Red Ebony and Cooktown IronWood and you see the names are interchangeable.

Regarding allergies, I am allergic to everything and have had no ill effects.

Enjoy.

I only wish they had it in larger dimensions.

As I'd never head of Red Ebony before, it piqued my curiosity and I did a bit of surfing.

So far I've found Red Ebony to refer to not only Cocobolo, Grenadillo and some of the timbers mentioned in above posts, but also to Tulipwood (D.albergia Decipularis), Brazilwood (Caesalpinia Echinata), Honduras Rosewood (D. Stevensonii), almost every South-American "rosewood" and even European Walnut! (Juglans Regia)

The only real things these timbers have in common are: the wood is a rich red with darker grain and they all have another more widely known common name.

I'm beginning to feel that Red Ebony is just another catch-all phrase, (like Tas. Oak), used by dealers to describe any rich red wood that they're not sure of... and maybe to add an "exotic feel" so they can bump the price.

One thing: many of these woods are deemed toxic (Cocobolo is the worst) and if you're not sure exactly which it is, take precautions when working it. At the very least, wear a dust-mask! But we all wear a dust-mask all the time when working woods, like good little vegemites, don't we?

Hi everyone,
I too have done some more searching. I feel very sure (I'll never say 100% unless I'm there when its felled) that it is Cooktown Ironbark. Given the diameter of the trunk of the tree, I can see why 200mm is getting to the top board width. Unfortunately the guys who handle the display and sales at MAthews (Ian and Neil) are on holiday, so it's a bit difficult to get more info.
Skewy, don't know how European Walnut got in there, but generally all timbers bearing the Generic name "Red Ebony" come from the family Legumanosiae. Thes constitute most of the Tropical American "rosewoods" and apparently Cooktown Ironbark. A feature of these trees is varying levels of Alkaloids in their leaves and one assumes, bark and timber. These are pretty nasty compunds in high quantities and are used as fish poisons in the amazon and NT and also as pain killers. This would account for the timbers nasty disposition when working it. (Particularly sanding).

Interestingly, I found an American timber merchant who has called Grenadillo "Macawood". I've got visions of two guys using red ebony veneer panels and one saying to the other, " Pass the Macawood would ya, Macca?"
Its early, KO?

Regards

Rob

A few years ago a mill up here was sending Ironwood (Erythrophleum chlorostachys) down south for sale. Apparently they decided to call it Red Ebony as it sounded fancier than Ironwood.
They used to make stables out of it until they found that the bark used to make the horses very sick when they chewed on it. The wood is very toxic also so make sure a respirator is always used.
See "Native Plants of Northern Australia" by John Brock p 150

Originally Posted by Flowboy

Skewy, don't know how European Walnut got in there, but generally all timbers bearing the Generic name "Red Ebony" come from the family Legumanosiae. Thes constitute most of the Tropical American "rosewoods" and apparently Cooktown Ironbark.

I saw it being offered as "Red Ebony (Juglans Regia) decking" by some flooring company with what looked, to me, like a photo of Grenadillo. Having just bought some E. Walnut turning blanks myself, all sorts of warning bells went off.

I suspect that none of the details are correct and the flooring company is just some cowboy or fly-by-nighter who disappears after receiving a deposit. (Walnut decking? I found it hard enough to credit Purpleheart decking until I bought some, but this? [shudder]) The internet can be a dangerous place for the... "unwary."

Hi all,

Just a note on the Red Ebony saga. About 2-3 weeks ago I put some through the planer/thicknesser to see what it looked like dressed. I have left it standing at the front of the workshop (covered) in the sun since then. It hasn't cupped, warped or bent and is a very nice colour with a good grain pattern. I had no adverse reactions while working it, though the planer did!
Interestingly, it has developed a fairly thick, shiny, waxy coat ver the time its been sitting.
I suspect that if you wanted to do anything serious with this, you would want to process it ASAP after dressing and ensure that all joints were clean and cut immediately before jointing the timber. For all that though, it really does look nice. (see pics)

Regards,

Rob

Northern Territory Red Ebony erythrophleum chlorostachys. Common name: Cooktown Ironwood

Apparently this tree was used medicinally by the aboriginal people, so shouldn't be poisonous!! For a full description, check out a seller called Kavisalas on e-bay. He has some salvaged stuff for sale. It certainly is a good-looking timber.

Originally Posted by Shedgirl

Northern Territory Red Ebony erythrophleum chlorostachys. Common name: Cooktown Ironwood

Apparently this tree was used medicinally by the aboriginal people, so shouldn't be poisonous!! For a full description, check out a seller called Kavisalas on e-bay. He has some salvaged stuff for sale. It certainly is a good-looking timber.

Just be carefull when sanding. There is plenty of literature and internet info available describing the dangers of Cooktown Ironwood to livestock. i.e. www.deh.gov.au/parks/kakadu/plantsanimalsisland/plants.html

Cooktown Ironwood is definetely no good for you if you inhale the dust.

I have a friend who spent a day slabbing an Ironwood log up and didnt wear a dust mask, he spent the next 4 days very sick, vomiting and bad headaches.

If you get a splinter it will fester up.

There is a story that I heard while living on Cape York, a cattletruck was parked under the shade of a Cooktown Ironwood tree while the driver stopped for lunch, the cattle ate what leaves they could reach, some of them died.

For all the hazards, it is a beatiful timber. Very stable and very hard. Probably my favorite. I've made quite a bit of furniture with it, and have a lot more projects planned to make a dent in my stash.

Flowboy,

I don't know what kind of wood you have there but, since you have posted photos, I can tell you that it is almost certainly not cocobolo. I've had a lot of the stuff through my shop and currently have a 50mm x 200mm x 1800mm slab in stock right now. I've never seen cocobolo that looked anything like what you have there. It is also not tulipwood. I've bought and used a great deal of tulipwood. I must have a dozen tulipwood boards right now. Some look very similar to each other and some are more highly figured, but none look like your photo. I've also picked through enough stacks of the stuff to be pretty sure you don't have tulipwood. I have a tulipwood pen in my pocket right now.
What ever wood you have is certainly pretty. I would have bought it in a flash. That would make for some very pretty accent wood for something like a jewelry box.
I can attest to the toxic nature of cocobolo. The worst reaction I've ever had to wood came from Bolivian rosewood. The second worst came from cocobolo. I was on steroids and antibiotics for weeks. It is a beatutiful wood that looks very nice right out of the planer. It sands to a fine finish, but does not accept an oil finish well due to the natural oils in the wood itself. I don't know if it accepts stain or not. Anyone who tries to stain it should have their head examined. In my experience, it is only surpassed in density by kingwood (another favorite of mine). I'm not home right now or I would post a photo of some cocobolo. It is a rich chocolate brown with black, red and yellow streaks through it. Very similar to kingwood in some ways although it does not have the distinct purple colorings that kingwood posseses.
When working with these woods I always use a dust extractor, my JDS2000 air filtration system, a double element charcoal mask and spoggles. Pay attention here. Mere safety glasses are not enough. Wear the most airtight goggles you can find unless you really want to see how big your eyes can swell. These severe reactions did not occur at first. In fact, I worked with this wood for about six months with no sign of allergy at all. Apparently, it has a cumulative effect on the body. If I had any brains at all, there would be none of it in my shop, but the stuff is just too pretty not to use it.
Sorry for the long ramble. If you would like to see a photo of a bunch of cocobolo and kingwood together, just say the word and I'll take one this afternoon.


Is it possible that what you have is Erythroxylon spp. ???