Thread: Shakes

I've seen plenty of shakes in N.G. rosewood, it seems to be particularly susceptible, but I can't recall ever seeing them in Qld maple. Not to say they don't occur, of course, winds, other growing stresses, and felling accidents can all cause shakes, so any species can be affected. Drying checks are longitudinal, I don't think poor drying can produce shakes (or at least I've not seen that happen).

I'd reckon you were just unlucky with these bits. I'm all for free or cheap wood wherever & whenever I get the chance, but for musical instruments, I'd be buying my wood from regular suppliers who stand behind what they sell. Might cost a little more, but considering the work that goes into instruments, you'd want to start with wood you can trust..

Cheers,

Hmmm...Qld Maple is very stable on the quarter and doesn't normally crack against the grain as such...radial degrade is minimal...I would be scrutinising the way you store your timber as it could well be the cause of your problems...Mr Fiddleback

Originally Posted by Mr Fiddleback

Hmmm...Qld Maple is very stable on the quarter and doesn't normally crack against the grain as such...radial degrade is minimal...I would be scrutinising the way you store your timber as it could well be the cause of your problems...Mr Fiddleback

Yeah, they were all sitting on a rack for about 10 years.

And I would have to be considerably mistreating my lumber
to get 50mm thick board to crack right through, across the grain, every couple of feet.
They tell me these things happen when they are felled.
Belly Shakes, is what they are.
And, I bought both the Rosewood and the Maple from reputable suppliers and paid good money for them, IanW.
I'm not sure what part of my post gave you the impression it was free lumber.
330mm wide, quarter sawn boards, are not the sort of thing people give away, usually.
But being 10 years ago, I'm having trouble finding the receipt . . lol

Originally Posted by Slapfest

Yeah, they were all sitting on a rack for about 10 years.

And I would have to be considerably mistreating my lumber
to get 50mm thick board to crack right through, across the grain, every couple of feet.
They tell me these things happen when they are felled.
Belly Shakes, is what they are.
And, I bought both the Rosewood and the Maple from reputable suppliers and paid good money for them, IanW.
I'm not sure what part of my post gave you the impression it was free lumber.
330mm wide, quarter sawn boards, are not the sort of thing people give away, usually.
But being 10 years ago, I'm having trouble finding the receipt . . lol

Pictures of your cracked boards would be useful Slapfest...Mr Fiddleback

Originally Posted by Slapfest

..... And, I bought both the Rosewood and the Maple from reputable suppliers and paid good money for them, IanW.
I'm not sure what part of my post gave you the impression it was free lumber....

Sorry, I wasn't meaning to suggest your wood was free, I was just sayin' that I like to get wood wherever I can at "the right price", but when it really matters I grit my teeth & pay what I have to.

And I think what you have are shakes alright. Even careless drying is unlikely to cause cross-grain failure, the tension develops between the fibres, not along them. Perhaps if the piece had a considerable amount of sapwood on it, you might get a cross-grain crack or two due to the sapwood shrinking longitudinally, but I've seen plenty of wood dried with lots of sapwood on and it can turn into bananas, but I've not noticed any cracking cross-wise...

Cheers,

Yeah, sounds like shakes to me as well. Drying/storage shouldn't have any effect on it, my understanding is that they're generally caused in felling.

Depending on how furry the rough sawn timber is you can sometimes see it, sometimes you just get unlucky

Shakes are usually the result of careless felling. Fallen timber in the path of the falling tree. Another common cause is felling down hill using a standed felling notch. If timber is prone to shake best to use a Humboldt notch.

I had to look up what a 'humboldt notch' is, rn. According to the site I found, it has a horizontal top cut & a sloped lower cut. I've not seen a tree scarfed that way that I can recall, we always used a version of what the same site calls an "open faced" scarf, back when we used axes & crosscut saw for felling. In later years, when chainsaws came into our lives, we'd cut the scarf with the chainsaw instead of an axe. We'd usually make the bottom cut more or less flat & the top cut sloped to met it.

Perhaps it's just my ignorance, but I can't see that the scarf faces have a lot to do with the direction in which a tree will fall, it's getting the direction of the notch right, and making the back cut so it creates an even "hinge" that has the biggest influence, surely? Any lean on the trunk, or uneven crown will also have a huge affect, which sometimes can't be counteracted by any sort of notching. That's when having a thumping great 200HP tractor was handy (& safer!).....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

Yeah, sounds like shakes to me as well. Drying/storage shouldn't have any effect on it

Excessive heat and low humidity for a prolonged period of time or episodes of direct sunlight/wind will have an adverse effect...timber WILL split against the grain,even quarter sawn material.Not forgetting we have had some brutally hot summers in recent years and the timber you have stored in your shed often 'feels the heat' too...sometimes there is collateral damage unfortunately...Mr Fiddleback

Originally Posted by IanW

I had to look up what a 'humboldt notch' is, rn. According to the site I found, it has a horizontal top cut & a sloped lower cut. I've not seen a tree scarfed that way that I can recall, we always used a version of what the same site calls an "open faced" scarf, back when we used axes & crosscut saw for felling. In later years, when chainsaws came into our lives, we'd cut the scarf with the chainsaw instead of an axe. We'd usually make the bottom cut more or less flat & the top cut sloped to met it.

Perhaps it's just my ignorance, but I can't see that the scarf faces have a lot to do with the direction in which a tree will fall, it's getting the direction of the notch right, and making the back cut so it creates an even "hinge" that has the biggest influence, surely? Any lean on the trunk, or uneven crown will also have a huge affect, which sometimes can't be counteracted by any sort of notching. That's when having a thumping great 200HP tractor was handy (& safer!).....

Cheers,

Ian, The purpose of the Humboldt notch is to give a softer landing for the falling tree. We used to use it on soft exotics. The standard notch allows the leading edge of the falling tree to engage the square leading edge of the stump BEFORE the head of the tree hits the ground, this causes the butt to jirk upwards as the tree hits mother earth head first.
With a Humboldt notch, the butt slides down the sloping face of the bottom cut, causing the falling tree to land butt end first without the violent up jirk of the heavy butt end. It also yields a square end log without scarf blaze.
I agree with you on directional felling. As for tractors, I'd rather a dozer anyday.

OK, thanks for that explanation, it makes sense now. I guess although I dropped a lot of trees in my younger days, they were mostly of middling-size with good crowns that eased them down pretty well. In any case, they were mostly destined for fence posts, so I would have been more pleased than upset if they'd pre-split a bit....

Originally Posted by rustynail

..... As for tractors, I'd rather a dozer anyday.......

Nah! Noisy, clunky, slow, grubbing machines. I'll take a good rubber-tyred FWD any day - gets around quicker without shaking the daylights out of you & doesn't rip the place up anywhere near as much.

Cheers,

Just remember you only have four small contact points to Mother Earth. In steep country that is a recipe for disaster. When it comes to big timber, speed is irrelavent. A good operator does minimal damage, a poor operator is not so fortunate. A nice piece of quality foam under your .... and you feel no pain. Earmuffs with audio and the hours just slip away

IMG_0426.jpg

Sorry to be slow on the pic
Held at an angle
to show the cracking through both faces
The Qld maple cracks are hard to get a decent pic of

Originally Posted by Slapfest

IMG_0426.jpg

Sorry to be slow on the pic
Held at an angle
to show the cracking through both faces
The Qld maple cracks are hard to get a decent pic of

I take it the pic is from your neck stock as it looks around 75mm wide.Definately a felling shake IMO.Craft wood now I'm afraid ...Mr Fiddleback