Thread: making shakes from Tasmanian timber

The reason for soaking is to swell the timber to its max dimension, as this is what happens when it rains. If the shakes are fitted dry a gap must be left for expansion and said gap would be an estimate. a soaked shake gives the exact max size in all dimensions. A tight fitted dry shake will want to cup when it meets resistance and will also pull the nails.
Aint life technical.
Froes are well named.....Frice round ya head and into the Derwent!
You cant beat a hydrolic log splitter for speeding up the process. But I know, your a Taswegian and they breed em tough down there.

Originally Posted by rustynail

The reason for soaking is to swell the timber to its max dimension, as this is what happens when it rains. If the shakes are fitted dry a gap must be left for expansion and said gap would be an estimate. a soaked shake gives the exact max size in all dimensions. A tight fitted dry shake will want to cup when it meets resistance and will also pull the nails.
Aint life technical.
Froes are well named.....Frice round ya head and into the Derwent!
You cant beat a hydrolic log splitter for speeding up the process. But I know, your a Taswegian and they breed em tough down there.

Thanks very much, that makes sense to have the shake at it's maximum size when attaching it to the battens. I'd like to say I'm a tuffin' but after 10 years in Tasmania, I'm still a 'mainlander' I don't think you can ever be a true Taswegian unless you were born here!

I wonder if there's anything i could add to the water i'm soaking the shakes in that would increase the durability of the shake from the weather?

thanks again!

Allison

Ten years? You're a tourist!
One method to inhance the durability of lesser timbers was to soak in boiling creosote. Totally enviro unfriendly but very effective. Maybe a better option would be to look at some of the products being offered by the log home companies. Back to the creosote, many years ago, when I was working in Tassie, we needed some durable stumps for a job. The only logs available to us at the time were green Regnans. We debarked them, cut them to manageable lengths and stood them in a 44gal drum half full of creosote. The drum was over a fire and the creo was brought to the boil and kept boiling until the sap, bubbling from the top end of the logs, turned dark. The logs were then removed and another charge went in. That was back in the early 70s and the stumps are as sound as ever last time I saw them in 2010.

They carry a range of Swedish axes etc. They can order in a froe. But they're pricey. Still asking over $200 after some bargaining.

Originally Posted by rustynail

Ten years? You're a tourist!

Be kind, Rusty. She's only got three generations to go.

Originally Posted by Alison;

I wonder if there's anything i could add to the water i'm soaking the shakes in that would increase the durability of the shake from the weather?

TasPaints in North Hobart sell a wood preservative that you soak into raw timber - they call it T888 and it is TBT based. Works well in most situations, but I do not know if it would leach out on a roof.

Grand parents never used anything on their shakes - just used natural timber an accepted that shakes needed replacement every twenty years or so. I would be concerned with any preservative if you intend collecting roof water.

Fair Winds

Graeme

I stayed at Binna Burra Lodge in Lamington National Park a few weeks ago. They have timber roof shingles on many of the rooms. The originals were from one of the local stringybark species. They now use Western Red Cedar for what they call heritage reasons. (Not sure how that works.)

I think there might have been a few native species shingles on one of the exterior cabin walls. Interesting to see them after they have been in the elements for so long.

For wood lovers there was also some big slabs of tallowwood used in making many of teh cabins. And a really long plank of, from memory, rosewood used in one of the dining room tables.

Originally Posted by MAI

They carry a range of Swedish axes etc. They can order in a froe. But they're pricey. Still asking over $200 after some bargaining.

In which case these ones

at around $100 must be a bargain Lie-Nielsen Toolworks Australia | Froes

Originally Posted by rustynail

Ten years? You're a tourist!
One method to inhance the durability of lesser timbers was to soak in boiling creosote. Totally enviro unfriendly but very effective. Maybe a better option would be to look at some of the products being offered by the log home companies. Back to the creosote, many years ago, when I was working in Tassie, we needed some durable stumps for a job. The only logs available to us at the time were green Regnans. We debarked them, cut them to manageable lengths and stood them in a 44gal drum half full of creosote. The drum was over a fire and the creo was brought to the boil and kept boiling until the sap, bubbling from the top end of the logs, turned dark. The logs were then removed and another charge went in. That was back in the early 70s and the stumps are as sound as ever last time I saw them in 2010.

I grew up in an era where every timber fence was treated with creosote. I have also heated creosote over a fire and soaked stumps (for house piers) to preserve the timber against rot and those nasty, evil, little white ants.

It works well by creating a vacuum effect which draws the creosote into the pores of the timber so it's not just a surface treatment.

However.......All that was before I discovered exactly how insidious creosote is. People anecdotally talk of how the creosote can burn the skin if you come into contact with it. The actual effect of the liquid contacting your skin or the fumes contacting your skin is that it removes the skin's natural protection to ultra violet radiation!

We all know that 30mins in the hot sun and we start to be burnt. The same period if you have had contact with creosote and you will need treatment probably at a hospital.

My own experience was where I was splashed with creosote and didn't remove my clothing for about half an hour. My supervisor saw the spash and immediately organised replacement clothes for me. The following day I was playing tennis and had to stop as I couldn't stand the sun on my legs where I had been splashed.

A builder I was working with related a similar experience where he had painted the bearers on a house with creosote. He had his shirt off and the fumes contacted his chest. Once he stood up and faced the sun he was in all sorts of trouble.

I don't think, even in Tassy with it's cooler climate, I would be tempted to use creosote in a domestic situation. The fuming effect can last for up to six months.

Edit: Also bear in mind GraemeCook's comment on collecting water off the roof.

Regards
Paul

1864 building.jpg

found a newspaper clipping from 1964...interesting way they attached the shakes!

Hints to New-comers; or, How to Become a Successful Queensland Selector.
XIII.
BY "A PRACTICAL MAN."
SHINGLE SPLITTING (Continued).— After the tree has fallen, knock off the bark, saw off the wedge-shaped butt-end, and then saw the rest of the log up into cuts exactly 18in. broad, or the
breadth you intend the shingles to he long (fig. 1). Now turn one of these sections face up on the ground, and with a carpenter's pencil mark it as I am about to tell you. We will suppose the tree is 4ft. across ; then all round the edge
mark off every 4in. —the width you do not intend the shingles to exceed. A very good rough guide for these 4 1/2 in. mark is the breadth of your band as laid flat on the edge of the block. Having marked all round (in a tree 4ft. through there will be thirty-two of these marks),
take a straight-edged bit of deal and draw a line from any one of these outside marks (see A fig. 2) to the oentre of the stump ; now draw a similar line from the adjoining mark (C) again to the centre. As you do not want the shingles to be a less width than 2 3/4 in., have a piece of wood just that length, and with it measure and mark where the lines are exactly that width apart; it will be about D. Next, with a pencil fastened to a bit of string and the other end of the string fastened to a nail driven into the centre of the block, draw the circle D, E, F, D, and mark it off into 23/4 in. spaces, just as you did the outside rim into 4 1/2 in. ; then draw lines from every ouside mark to its corresponding inside one, as shown atKH, and you have all your "billets" nicely and exactly marked. All this may sound rather puzzling, but try it on the stump and it will in reality be found quite simple ; once mastered you will find it very easy, and by it you will avoid any waste wood or irregular shingles, and you cannot posiibly make them either too broad or too narrow. If the heart of the tree is sound you can get an inner layer of billets, by treating the inner circle, D, E, F, D exactly the same as you did the outer one, but there is bound to be a centre piece of the very heart which it will be useless to split up. If the tree is " pipey " you can find the centre point and draw the circle all the same, by placing across the pipe a piece of old deal case. Now with your wedges and maul split this block in half, then into half again—that is into quartered—and again into half quarters, but always keeping on to one of the lines. Now split off tho inuor circle of billets ; you can then divide the outside into tho divisions as marked, and you have tho wholo cut of the tree split up into pieces the shape of fig. 3, and ready to be further split into shingles. Each
billet will be 18in. tall by 4 1/2 in. broad at the one end, and 2 3/4 in. at the thin end, and about lft. long, and will yield you, if the wood is all good, 24 shingles, or 768 in all, not counting the inner circle of billets, which should yield about 240 or 1000 in the one cut of the tree. The quickest and handiest method of splitting these billets into shingles is thus :—Got a fork of a tree 6ft. or 7ft. long, and the thickness of your thigh, place this flat across the stump of the fallen tree, the two prongs projecting lft. or so over to the right of the stump, aud the butt end projecting a similar distance over the left, an you look at it. Notice that it rests firmly and is solid ; lift up one of the " billets" and put it, end upwards, between the forks (an shown in fig. 4) ; the
* Right of re-publication marred by the author
business of the fork is simply to hold the billet steady, and keep the split pieces from falling off the stump. Now take your shingling "froe" (fig. 5.)—a tool you must buy and can get at any
bush store—in your left hand and your mallet (fig. 6.) in your right, lay the froe on the cen tre of the billet in the line A B (fig. 8), give it a smart hit with the mallet, and the billet falls in two. Divide the halves again, and again, and again, but always in the same direc-
tion as the first out (see dotted lines fig 3) till each bit will just split into two shingles: a good gauge of the proper thickness of these is the breadth of the back edge of the "froe" : do not knock each shingle off by itself but halve, and halve each half, as stated above.
By proceeding in this simple yet systematic manner, you will waste but little wood, have but few in- ferior shingles, and the work will be a pleasure to you, except the sawing part, which is always laborious. If the tree does not split easily, leave it and fall another ; and before you go to the bother of sawing off all the breadths try one and see how it will split The mallet (fig. 6) is simply a piece of tough knotty branch of a tree, about 4 in. thick and about l ft long ; pare down one end till it is thin enough for your hand to grasp, and you use it as you would a club if you were going to knock down an enemy. Always, when not using the mallet, lay it down on the forks to your
right, and lay the "froe" down on FIG. 6 the left ; they are thus always to hand.
figure 1.jpg


FIG 1—FALLEN TREE—SHOWING HOW TO CUT INTO SECTIONS FOB SHINGLES
figure 2.jpg


FIG 2—A BLOCK 4FT. ACROSS MARKED FOR SPLITTING INTO "BILLETS."
figure 3.jpg


FIG 3 -- A SINGLE ''BILLET'' SHOWING BY THE DOTTED LINES THE WAY IN WHICH IT IS TO BE SPLIT INTO SHINGLES.
figure 4.jpg

FIG. 4


figure 5.jpg

FIG 5 - THE FROE.

figure 6.jpg


FIG 6 - PERSPECTIVE VIEW OF '' BILLET '' BETWEEN THE FORK READY FOB SPLITTING INTO SHINGLES,




this is a really interesting article! some of the article makes me laugh as it is so detailed. thanks to the "Practical Man" for his wisdom...whowever he was..

Hi Paul, Thanks for your experiences with creosote, I think i will just clad the shed with the shakes and roof if with some iron. I'd be pretty sceptical about using creosote. Washing power, skin care products, cleaning products all give me skin allergies and make me cough, so I'm going to try and find something natural to soak the timber with(if i bother with that at all and if such a thing exists)

thanks again and I'm sorry to hear the creosote was a bit of a bastard to your health, I can only imagine what harm it does to your lungs if it strongly effects the natural coating of the skin. scary stuff.

Good Morning Allison

Not sure where in Tas you are, but their is a small cottage in Sloan Street, Battery Point, that has a shingle roof, still in quite good condition. I got back here in 1983 and that roof was well weathered then - and it has not been re-shingled since. Revise previous statement - "Shingles need replacing every 30+ years, or so...."

Fair Winds

Graeme

Thanks I'll check it out!!!

I did say it was enviro unfriendly. I havent used the stuff since and dont miss it one little bit. Talked to some blokes who used to treat telegraph poles, they told me they smear themselves with vaseline.

Originally Posted by rustynail

I did say it was enviro unfriendly. I havent used the stuff (creosote) since and dont miss it one little bit. Talked to some blokes who used to treat telegraph poles, they told me they smear themselves with vaseline.

Is creosote still available, Rusty.

There was some talk about banning it as a carcinogenic some five or six years ago???

Fair Winds

Graeme