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Thread: Steam bending cedar
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21st September 2007, 05:26 PM #16
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21st September 2007, 11:37 PM #17GOLD MEMBER
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A bit more
Bob and Barry, I spent a lot of my younger years at Keith Smiths boat builders in South Townsville and then dad had a boat built by the legendary Bruce Douglas and they used to boil the wood with a handfull of coffe beans in the water( dont know if this helped or if it was just to smell good) till it started to move and then they kept the timber softening with wet steam, IE never let it run out of water. This process took a couple of days for the very hard dry wood they used to use.
Hope this is some help,
Richard.
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21st September 2007, 11:37 PM #18SENIOR MEMBER
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Perhaps you could try doing the tighter bend first.
donna
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27th September 2007, 05:43 PM #19Intermediate Member
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The latest developments....
On Friday, I put the piece of cedar into soak and left it till Monday morning. When I pulled it out, I discovered that somehow it had floated higher and only about 3/4 of the wood had been submerged!!! So, back into soak and double check that the whole show was submerged this time.
Wednesday morning, out she came and into the steam box. Steamed it for about 2 1/2 hours. Clamped it up to the jig and the gentle curve bent easily, but it was still a litle reluctant to bend on the sharper curve.
In the second rebuild of the set-up, I made a central outlet hole in the drum lid, using a 500ml paint tin, which is about 4" wide. So, I came up with the idea of sitting the still unclamped section directly over the outlet, letting it steam some more and gradually, over a period of about 40 minutes, tightening the clamp on it. It cracked a little initially (aargh), but I put another clamp over that point to protect it and carried on. I'm going to leave it on the jig for 4 or 5 days and then see what we've got. Crossed fingers, but maybe this time we'll be in business!
On the next piece, I'll soak it for about a week and then steam it for about 4 hours. Hopefully, that'll do the trick, but I'll keep you posted.
Cheers, Bob
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27th September 2007, 05:49 PM #20
Strewth, Bob - this is a real labour of love! (Or are you charging by the hour ). That is one reluctant, recalcitrant, sodding piece of wood!
Something I read many yrs ago in FWW - when bending around sharp curves, they advised supporting the back of the bend with a metal strap to stop the fraying & cracking of the outer layers you described. Might be a bit difficult to get a strap on just the end bit, but maybe worth a try if it's feasible?
Also, I just remembered, adding detergent to the water was recommended, or has someone already mentioned that?
Cheers,IW
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4th October 2007, 10:58 AM #21Senior Member
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If you haven't finished it yet, check out: http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...&cat=1&p=45866
Note in particular the metal strap they have there to assist bending without breaking.
Click on "instructional media' then go for the middle one, it's a free download on steam bending.
Hope that helps
Paul
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4th October 2007, 12:41 PM #22New Member
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May be a bit late to help... just been bending some brush box ribs for a boat and had al sorts of probelms untill I got it hot enough in the steamer.... steam is not steam and lots comming out the end was not a good enough indicator. I did not get any sucess untill I had a measured 97degrees C inside the steam box... then everything started to work. Timber was green though... so I think that soaking the timber may help as well.
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4th October 2007, 02:11 PM #23
Wereda - spot-on! That point got lost by the rest of us in the discussion. If you remember your high-school Physics, real steam is invisible, (and bleddy 'ot!). The cloud of stuff coming out of the end has condensed back to water droplets & is MUCH cooler than the real stuff, though it might feel uncomfortably warm. So if you looked in the steam box (dunno how without scorching your (eye)balls unless you make a small glass/perspex morror at the far end) and saw lots of "steam", it's confirmation that you aren't getting anywhere near up to temperature in the box.
Cheers,IW
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4th October 2007, 02:51 PM #24Senior Member
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Bob,
regarding boat building I have read a bit about steam bending, but never done it myself... so take what I say with a handful of salt.
I am quite sure I read somewhere that if you steam something and then try to bend it, and don't get where you want, and repeat the process, then you are likely to run into trouble- this may be why your latest bit snapped?
Has this been the same peice you have been trying and re-trying?
Also, like has been said already, after soaking and steaming correctly (of course) the consensus of opinion and advice I have read is that once removed from the steaming box it is paramount to get that bit of timber IMMEDIATELY into the mold and bent... it can come down to seconds making a big difference- especially with something as thin as you are bending (cooling down very quickly). So I guess it needs to be all hands on deck (if possible) to help you get that timber out and into the mold ASAP, and also having your workshop set up to minimize the time and space between steamer and mold...
but this is probably totally obvious anyway.
Good luck,
And if you can, you should post some photos, as it sounds very interesting.
btw, I did a quick search at the WBF (woodenboatforum) and there are lots and lots of hits,
try this, and do some reading
http://www.woodenboatvb.com/vbulleti...earchid=602416
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5th October 2007, 07:49 AM #25
Bending timber
Bob
There is a company in Daylesford in Victoria ( I will Get name when swmbo wakes) that has all the bending machines that the rail companies used to bend their mouldings.
They can do the most amazing things. I have seen them turning full circles.
He also has some rail carriage ribs their as he was showing me what they can do.
Anyone who is going to that area should drop in and have a look around as it shows some what can be achieved.
Regards
Hagrid
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7th October 2007, 04:52 PM #26
High Rocking Chair
I said I'd get photo's from uncle of a chair my dad made for my little sister when she was born back in 1962.
Uncle gave me the chair on Saturday at his 80th party, (This isn't family relation uncle this was dad's close freind type uncle.)
I am stoked I have something I can use for my grandson when he comes which was made by my dad.
It's had more baby bums on it than I could care to count. It's well worn but sturdy as ever.
You can see the complex bends on the back legs and the bottom front leg then there is the bend on the table swing arm and the two front pieces around the table.
Ray
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17th December 2007, 03:59 PM #27Intermediate Member
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Nearly 3 months later, I think I've finally got it sorted.
In the end, I gave up trying to bend the VERY dry cedar from the carriage. Seeems no matter how long I soaked it and how long I steamed it, it was just not compliant enough.
So I got some pieces more appropriate from Craig from Casino, who does the Working with Wood Shows.
I think this stuff is from trees he harvested about 1990 and didn't start selling till about 2004.
Although it's still very old timber, it must be far more moist than my 105 year-cured stuff.
So having tried that, it bent much easier. The first piece I soaked for about a fortnight and steamed for about 3 hours and it's done the trick and is now installed, French polished, in the car. I've done two pieces like this so far and as I write, am steaming the third piece, which has been soaking for about 2 months (I've had a busy time at work!)
So, the answer seems to be that there are some timbers which are just too dry to successfully steam, at least on a "backyard" basis.
Thanks to all who offered thier thoughts.
Cheers, Bob
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17th December 2007, 07:28 PM #28
Good on you Bob any chance of photo's of the Carrriage
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17th December 2007, 07:53 PM #29
Good on youBob,
One thing I forgot to mention/ask was regarding grain. Were the pieces you were trying to steam quartersawn or backsawn? If quartersawn, they would have been harder to bend.
Some pics would be great.
regards,
ADwww.denmanmarine.com.au
Australian agent for Swallow Boats, Bruynzeel Multipanel Plywood and Barton Marine Products
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18th December 2007, 02:42 PM #30Intermediate Member
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Given the slight variation in colours on the new pieces, I'd be inclined to think they're quarter sawn. This particular piece was almost one of Craig's offcuts and at one side it has a bit of a lighter hue, as if it's getting close to the outside of the trunk.
As for pics, I'll post up this link, from which you can read the whole history of the car's restoration. www.trains.org.au/rollingstock/al_1040.php
I'll duck down to the Museum and take some shots of the pieces I've bent in situ and try to work out how to post them here, as well.
Cheers, Bob
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