Thread: tasmanian oak

There are some subtle and not so subtle differences between Ash and Tasmanian Oak.

Genuined Tasmanian Oak has a high proportion of Messmate (e.obliqua) in it which is both harder (by around 1.5 junka points) than the two ashes used (e.regnans; e.delicatensis). This difference causes Tasman Oak to be pererred over Ash for flooring.

The Ash is also prone to internal collapse. It is often reconditioned which closses this collapse. But it does not necessarily "repair" the damage. Flaking at this points is common.

Messmate, is far less prone to this and for this reason furniture manufactures who are prepared to pay the extra (usually those operating at the higher end of the market) will often demand Messmate and refuse Ash.

"Genuine" Tasmanian Oak can have up to 80% messmate in it, although some mayu be as little 30%. Either way, if offerred Genuine Tasmanian Oak for the same price it is a better proposition. But beware the merchant who sells you Ash as Tasmanaian Oak or claims them to be the same!

[QUOTE=]Albert.

In furniture making particularly bench tops you should never go wider than 150mm in board size as you may get into trouble with bowing, twisting etc.

Ever wondered why a lot of bench tops are laminated from 25mm boards? This is one reason. There are others involving value adding but I won't go there.


,

Agree with you totally - the wider panel that I want I will be cutting up (later rejoining) as front skirt with drawers...

For top I was thinking of 100mm or less boards...

Albert

I agree that you don't want to go too wide on your board laminations for risk of cupping, but we have been pushing the envelope on this one big time just to find out...and the results so far are good.

By way of interest, we put together a table top from 178mm X 35mm backcut boards in Red Gum to see how far we could push this material and to see just how good our drying of this timber was. Over a periuod of 5 weeksn we put the oil finished final product an air conditoned room, cooked it in the sun, let humid cold air woft over it - it stayed flat. The table then went through 3 reasons in a region (without a controlled environment) that threw some quite varied changes in temp and relative humidity at it (from 0C to 42C; from 27%RH to 75%RH). It has still stayed surprisingly flat (so far). One more season to go and we'll be confident!

We have also had no problems (so far) with the slabs we dry ourselves - once finished and fitted the maximum movement on the slab table tops over 12 months has been a 1mm to 1.5mm difference edge to edge across 900mm to 1000mm widths at 45mm thickness (we were expecting between 2 and 3mm). Admitedly, slabs are a different matter to laminated boards.

It is probable that the risks you can take come down to the species you are working with, your reading of the particualr boards and the quality of drying.

Slabman,
I agree that some timbers like redgum are stable in wide widths when properly seasoned. But your testing method is not taking into account that many of the higher end timbers go into air-conditioned &\or centrally heated homes. Thus temperature and humidity changes that would naturally occur over many hours or even days can occur in minutes instead.

So it is prudent therefore to generally aim at max 150mm boards, though I personally prefer 100mm boards.

Hi Echidna,

I agree in general that 150mm is a prudent maximum particalarly if you do not knwo the detail of how a board was dried or are concerned at how "volotile" the species may be.

I may have not explained my self very well. The tests we did involved airconditioning and heating as well as season changes. The extremes the pieces faced were greater than would normally be experienced in most homes or offices.

Red Iron Bark, White Stringy, Red Stringy and Red Box have also been kind to us in this way in the same way our Redgum has been. Vic Ash on the other hand, or backcut spotted gum, well that's another story - but these were purchased rather than dried by us.

The key I think is the MC, the moisture gradient and minimum drying stress in the board. We dry far slower and at higher RH settings than the recommended schedule, particualrly from green down to fiber saturation. I've generally found that if drying fault and stress in the board is going to occur it is most easily trigged during this stage.

Originally Posted by Farm boy

hi guys

Originally Posted by Farm boy

is tasmanian oak the same as victorian ash?
we are getting a pool table made and the builder said victorian ash is tasmanian oak just a different part of the tree,is this fairdinkum or is he pulling my leg
thanks
greg

Tasmanian Oak grows in Tasmania
Victorian Ash grows in Victoria.
So whats the difference?

Well, to start with most of the Ash Trees we have here in Victoria won't Marry or Have Sex with their Brothers or Sisters or even Aunties or Uncles for that matter. The Tasmanian Cousins however (so I've heard) Do!

Many many years ago some naughty little rebel teenage Ash Trees (hippies) escaped and walked across to live and reproduce freely the way they wanted to live without the rules, regulations & religions of their Mountain Ash Ancestors. Mother Nature didn't like the way those free loving hippies lived so it decided to seperate them from the mainland with a treacherous span of water called the Tasman.

Slowly with the isolation of the ocean, these trees have mutated into breeds of their own.

The age of the older forests of Tasmania means the trees are generally taller staighter grain with less sap lines.
Here is an extract from one of my Timber Information Cards which may be of help to you.


TASMANIAN OAK
‘The flowering giant’ Eucalypt - Delegantensis/Regnans/Opiqua
The name Tasmanian Oak was originally used by early European timber workers who believed the eucalyptus showed the same strength as English Oak.

Distribution
Tasmanian Oak is the name used for 3 almost identical species, Delegantensis grows in the highlands, Regnans grows in the wetter sites & Opliqua is widely found in wet dry regions of Tasmania. For a hundred years the docks of London , England were built on swamp gum piles. Now the biggest and best swamp gums are protected in Tasmania’s national parks & reserves.

The Tree
Towering up to 70 metres (230 feet) - with some specimens reaching 100 meters (328 feet) Tasmanian Oak is the tallest hardwood tree and the tallest flowering plant in the whole world, Tasmanian Oak is a warm, dense and resilient hardwood. These tall straight trees are widely used for construction, furniture and cabinetry.

Bunnings have tried to solve the Tasmanian Oak name dillema, btw as in the original reason for this post, by calling those species Australian Oak.

Vic Ash IS NOT TAS OAK.
Go to a flooring merchant and have a look at Vic Ash and then have a look at Tas Oak.
The difference is like chalk and cheese.

Originally Posted by echnidna

Vic Ash IS NOT TAS OAK.
Go to a flooring merchant and have a look at Vic Ash and then have a look at Tas Oak.
The difference is like chalk and cheese.

Are you telling me to go to a flooring merchant?


Of course it looks different, its spent 1000's of years growing in different forests.

Sometimes you may get Ash that looks more like Oak sometimes the other way around. I wouldn't go as far to say that its like chalk & cheese.
(Have you ever eaten chalk?)
I tried to explain it in simple birds & bees terms in my post above.
Now if thats too hard to understand then I give up & i'll let the confusion continue.

Originally Posted by Andrew from AWC

I tried to explain it in simple birds & bees terms in my post above.
Now if thats too hard to understand then I give up & i'll let the confusion continue.

You have an interesting attitude.

All the species comprising tas oak are also commonly found in Victoria AND NSW.

You have admitted your information came from a simple timber identification card. But you apparently don't feel like making an effort to go and look at the timber itself.

I work with it everyday both Ash & Oak. I refuse to agree that its like chalk & cheese. The fact is its similar. I was only trying to help explain for people who don't see it that much, for these people it wouldn't be chalk & cheese.

But i'll go to a flooring merchant again tomorrow as you suggested & look at it again if you like.
If you had a 3mmx3mm peice in your hand of each sort, you would struggle to tell the difference. Don't you agree? On the other hand a peice of chalk & cheese the same size.................ah forget it, Your right they are completely different, thats why Bunnings call them both Australian Oak right?

My father and my fathers father and his father all used "Tassie Oak/gumtree" to build everything up until you mainlanders started calling it Tassie oak. It was simply called 'hardwood' until the about a decade ago when a certian timber/woodchip company started marketing/exporting the resource as tassie oak. 99% of Tasmanian homes are framed with this timber and what your probably buying on the mainland isn't tassie oak in the true sense. Basically most dark eucalypt varities have the same qualities and the only difference between true tassie oak and the mainland variety is where it is grown. These qualities being, it's cheap, strong and if you like it woodchip form it's available at 11c a ton!!!

Us mainlanders didn't coin the name Tassy Oak .
That was done by Tassy Timber Industry marketers.
Who also renamed Australian Blackwood to Tassy Blackwood

But some of the learner mainland woodies just don't realise its only a generic marketing name for mixed hardwoods.

Originally Posted by echnidna

But some of the learner mainland woodies just don't realise its only a generic marketing name for mixed hardwoods.

I agree, It has become a generic marketing name for mixed hardwoods (light colour gum trees)

Still can't figure out your chalk & cheese comment though.
Oh well, I'm movin on. I got piles of crappy hardwood to sort through.