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  1. #1
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    Default Tassie Oak - stability?

    Hi all,

    I'm planning to build a tool chest soon and am wanting to use quarter sawn tasmanian oak (or some other relatively cheapish hardwood) for it.
    However, as it will feature a lot of decorative veneer work (using resawn veneer) and may also use some bent laminations i'm particularly concerned about the stability of the substrate wood used for the casework.

    Does anyone know if tassie oak will be up to the task/is stable enough to be used as a base for traditional veneering?
    The average thickness of my pieces is likely to be around 8-15mm, though some pieces may be up to 20-30mm thick.

    Any insights would be very much appreciated as i'm very much lacking in knowledge when it comes to australian timbers.

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  3. #2
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    Default

    It may depend on which species (but maybe not). There are 3 or 4 species declared as Tas. Oak, and one of them, Mountain Ash, is used as a structural timber, so pretty stable
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  4. #3
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    Default

    Most species refered to as Tas oak or Vic ash are collapse prone. That is only an issue if you're using green timber though... If you need it stable buy KD and it will have been reconditioned as part of the drying process.

  5. #4
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    Noted. I'm planning on limiting my search to kiln dried timber rather than green material as i'd like to try to keep waste through warping and checking to a minimum ...and my track record on drying timber myself isn't particularly fantastic (limited space and patience)

    Any recommendations on especially stable but fairly easily available hardwoods that might be better for the job in mind if not tassie oak/mountain ash?

  6. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fudo133 View Post
    Hi all,

    I'm planning to build a tool chest soon and am wanting to use quarter sawn tasmanian oak (or some other relatively cheapish hardwood) for it.
    However, as it will feature a lot of decorative veneer work (using resawn veneer) and may also use some bent laminations i'm particularly concerned about the stability of the substrate wood used for the casework.

    Does anyone know if tassie oak will be up to the task/is stable enough to be used as a base for traditional veneering?
    The average thickness of my pieces is likely to be around 8-15mm, though some pieces may be up to 20-30mm thick.

    Any insights would be very much appreciated as i'm very much lacking in knowledge when it comes to australian timbers.
    my advice would be don't.
    MDF, Particle board and furniture grade ply are better substrates for veneered panels than solid wood.

    I'd only use solid wood where I was making a complex shape and was going to veneer in the same species, or
    if I was using block construction.

    Tassie Oak is usually only available quarter sawn and should be fine for framing and solid panels.

    For bent laminations, you will want to use flat sawn rather than quarter sawn wood.
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian View Post
    my advice would be don't.
    MDF, Particle board and furniture grade ply are better substrates for veneered panels than solid wood.

    I'd only use solid wood where I was making a complex shape and was going to veneer in the same species, or
    if I was using block construction.

    Tassie Oak is usually only available quarter sawn and should be fine for framing and solid panels.

    For bent laminations, you will want to use flat sawn rather than quarter sawn wood.
    One area will likely be done using either bent lamination or a blockwork construction.

    I'm in agreement about the ply over solid wood for the panels, though i also need to be able to do sliding dovetails or at the very least dado joints to help hold some complex mouldings in place on the panels themselves, so i assumed thin solid wood would be the only option?

  8. #7
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    Default

    Is this question related to your other post
    Quote Originally Posted by fudo133 View Post
    Hey everyone,

    I've started planning out my next (slightly 'ambitious'/overly complex and insanity inducing) project and am wondering whether my idea for making the doors would work.

    At the moment my plan is to build them from standard squared off profiled timber then take them apart once the fit of everything is perfect and plane them to the final angled profile before putting it back together.

    I know I could achieve more or less the same result far more easily with veneers and applied mouldings though part of me is curious about how to build them with joinery.

    Here's a rough drawing of what i'm planning...

    Attachment 342975

    And a quick doodle to show the joinery i was thinking of for the frame and panels.
    The fancy bits either side of the triangular section are ideas i had for mouldings attached with sliding dovetails.
    I think those would work, but i have my doubts about the additional sliding dovetail-ish joint forming the wall between them and the central triangular profiled frame piece.

    Attachment 342977

    Any help would be muchly appreciated
    If so I think you need to completely rethink both the design and construction methods.
    Mouldings are used to hide the join between a panel and the style/rail/mullion/munton or to retain the panel -- they are usually cut into the style/rail/mullion/munton or just nailed on

    My first pass look at your proposed design leads me to believe that wood movement will destroy your project.
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian View Post
    Is this question related to your other post


    If so I think you need to completely rethink both the design and construction methods.
    Mouldings are used to hide the join between a panel and the style/rail/mullion/munton or to retain the panel -- they are usually cut into the style/rail/mullion/munton or just nailed on

    My first pass look at your proposed design leads me to believe that wood movement will destroy your project.
    It is indeed.

    Though i'm certain my idea on construction is off, i seem to recall having seen ripple mouldings attached to panels using sliding dovetails in a couple of historical examples of similar cabinets including (i think) this one: http://musee.louvre.fr/oal/cabinet/i...verts_2_HD.jpg

    I'm not against gluing or nailing the mouldings onto the rail, though its problematic for me to cut/scrape them out of it as i was planning to veneer the frame as well as the panels and make the mouldings out of same wood (either ebony, persimmon, or rosewood).

    I got the idea about the construction method from a combo of looking at a massive number of examples of similar cabinets to that ebony veneered one online, and from a few videos on parquet panels such as this

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaUiCpgEzCM

    The design is something that i'd really prefer not to change too much as i'm almost certain it could be done, albeit with a great deal of difficulty, but i will definitely be going back and reworking the construction ideas a bit.

  10. #9
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    Fudo

    can you find a copy of George Ellis's "Modern Practical Joinery" first published in 1902?
    My copy is a 2006 reprint of the 1987 reprint of the 1908 3rd Edition -- that's a mouthful

    I think you can still buy it from Amazon


    In it you will find the traditional methods for attaching mouldings and panels to doors.
    regards from Alberta, Canada

    ian

  11. #10
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    Default

    I'll look into it, thanks!

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