Thread: What Timber for house frame

Pulpo,

Steel frames are a pain in the backside, good for pre fabricated sheds etc but can't beat timber for house framing.

Hardwood is strong and available, the cons are:

1) difficult to work with
2) hard to get straight sections
3) will wrap and twist when it dries out.

My choice will be 90 X 45 pine with 450 stud spacing for wall framing with R1.5 thermal batts & sarking in external walls to take care of noise & cold.

Most house frames in new houses in Sydney are prefabricated 70 X 35 pine.

Regards,

Theva

I don't think I'd do a house frame for myself again if it wasn't treated timber.

I also think the "hardwood is stronger" line is a furphy. The frame only has to be strong enough to keep the roof higher than the ceiling, and within reason the cheapest way of doing that is the best.

Pine used to be a shocking material when we first started using it..stable, easy, light and no need for trenching top and bottom plates. In the finished house it moved like buggery with the weather, so you'd always be getting call backs to ease doors. It doesn't seem to be such a problem now that doors aren't set up with a penny-width gap all round. (sigh!)

Go whatever is the most economical form of treated material.

Cheers,

P

Pulpo,
definitely pine! Steel is quick to erect but a bugger to trim out nicely as all the trims need to be screwed on or alternatively you glue the skirtings etc and whack in some finishing gun nails and hope they hold stuff onto the gyprock while the glue sets. Then if there's any subsequent movement of the trim it'll either pop loose from the glue or tear out a chunk of gyprock. :mad: Also if you dont put in timber studs behind the steel on your doorways you may find that the door's weight will cause the jamb to come adrift and you'll end up filling the jamb with screws to try to keep it in place.

Hardwood is heavy, expensive and a bugger to nail to. If you go hardwood go for gauged rather than roughsawn, this is planed on the edges to bring it to a uniform size which will save a lot of mucking around trying to get your walls in the one plane. You may still need to straighten walls if you use hardwood, partly cutting through studs ("crippling"), pushing them straight and reinforcing with an offcut ("scabbing"). You'll also need to keep all the stock covered before use as if you let the sun get to it it will all start to warp badly. As it dries it also gets very hard to nail or screw to so if the frames are up too long before cladding and roofing it's a real pain.

Definitely go with pine - dimensions and grade to be determined by wind loads etc. Use treated pine (LOSP as a minimum) and if you want a bit of extra insurance make the bottom plates out of CCA. Your internal non load bearing walls may possiblt be of a lower strength grade (F5 or MGP equiv.) than the external walls and if this is the case consider using a better grade (F8 or better) for your jamb studs. These tend to be denser, straighter and more stable than the lowest grade and should all but eliminate movement problems in your doorways.

Mick

Go to any residential building site in Melbourne these days and try to find hardwood. Most are using pine (some wouldn't pass for merch grade).

I haven't heard many good things about steel framing other than the speed at which you can get the frame up, but if you were using prefab timber wall frames you could do it just as quick. I'm planning a few buildings at the moment and all will be framed in kd treated pine.

Pulpo

I notice that most people that have replied seem to be against steel framing.

I am the opposite. 25 years ago I started to build my house. I had a difficult question to answer as what to use. Hardwood, Pine, Aluminium or Steel for the frame.

The decision in the end was to use steel. Twenty five years ago there wasn't much choice of suppliers. There was Lysaght welded system and the was an another company called Duraframe who made a modular knocked down system which I decided on mainly because at the time I lived in Sydney and I was building the house north of Tamworth in NSW.

I purchased the frame and steel trusses in knocked down form and carted it to Tamworth on an 8 tonne truck. The house is a five bedroom and 33 squares which my self and wife assembled and erected.

The best part about it was that I ran out of money and the frame sat there exposed to the elements for 3 years. Can you imagine what would have happened to a pine frame or even a hardwood frame.

As far as being noisy is concerned is a lot of garbage.

As far as fixout is concerned the range of fasteners available today makes it an easy job.

After 25 years there is not one crack in the gyprock or cornices because the contraction and expansion between gyprock and steel is compatable.

The area I live is subject to termites and they don't like steel.

If I was building again I would certainly use steel and the choice of suppliers of steel frames today is pretty extensive.

I would never build a house out of pine. If you could get seasoned hardwood that would be good, but hard wood straight from the mill would send you nuts trying to get it straight.

For your deck there are some very good steel flooring systems around by Lysaghts and One Steel and then just fix your timber decking down to your steel joists.

Thats just my .02 cents worth

Once again, great valuable information.

Thanks for your thoughts.

A couple of follow up questions.

Mick what do you mean by CCA and LOSP as a minimum?

Do you know anywhere to get a good explanation of timber classifications?

Also on my plans they talk about the external wall 90mm width timber but not thickness. Would you use 45mm or 35mm [house size, excluding verandah, 9.7m*7.2m]?

Eastie
What do you mean by kd treated pine?

Finally I do like the idea of steel bearers and joists for the hardwood timber decking/verandah, anyone had experience with this?

Thanks once again for your thoughts.

Cheers

Pulpo

Standards Australia have standards on timber grading. Also standards on what sizes of wood to go where. You can also get this from building regulations

Pulpo,
have a look at the following info:

Treatements: http://www.chhwoodlogic.com.au/Produ...297,61,00.html
MGP info:http://www.hyne.com.au/downloads/pdf...s/Hynepine.pdf

Cheers,
Eastie

PS, Barry, like timber if steel is designed well and put together properly it can be jsut as good, if not better than timber, makes a hell of a mess of yer chisles though

G'day pulpo.
Mate, I work in a northern N.S.W. hardwood plant.

I built my place with LOSP treated pine.
Hardwood is too heavy and has too much spring and bow.
Mind you, The load bearing sections of the trusses had F27 K.D. Grey Ironbark.

Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor
Grafton

Mick what do you mean by CCA and LOSP as a minimum?

Copper Chrome Arsenate

Light Organic Solvent Preservative

Do you know anywhere to get a good explanation of timber classifications?
Usually your local library may hve some reference books or you can search the internet for some good information.

Also on my plans they talk about the external wall 90mm width timber but not thickness. Would you use 45mm or 35mm [house size, excluding verandah, 9.7m*7.2m]?
Most framing is made from 35mm thick timber. Specific design requirements would determine the need for thicker material, but, more likely to be in two or more story buildings or unusually high wind loading cases. I would look for a good book on timber framing for the requirments, like Tradac etc.


Eastie
What do you mean by kd treated pine?

Kiln Dried Treated Pine (CCA or LOSP)

I have built two homes from scratch and I am currently rennovating. The first home was steel frame, timber truss. Second was double brick / timber frame, timber truss (two storey) and the last (current) is using timber again (building in underneath). I had no problems with the steel frame, but, being my first attempt the steel was quicker and cheaper. Difficulty was not being able to easily change the layout when or if you wanted to change. This would be similar to pre-fab timber frames. Since the first home I have made the frames myself as I found this very rewarding personally, but, agree that the quality of timber over the years has declined and now requires a lot more effort/waste to get a good job. You can use the worst of the timber in short lengths for noggins etc. Much of this boils down to personal preference.

Pulpo try this mob

http://www.tda.asn.au/about.html

I did the new timber framing code for A/NZ standards with them last year so if you have any Q you can PM me

they can and will answer lots of Q for you in regards to timber framing and anything else to do with timber in the building industry (ie floors doors etc etc)

Cheers Ian

I'm another advocate for steel.
Built our current house using a steel frame 6 years ago.
All previous homes that I've owned were timber.
I have never found any timber (treated or otherwise) that termites won't eventually make a meal of - even if it kills them!!
Fit out with steel is different but can be achieved quite OK.
Noisy? The comment I have frequently heard is that the roof on a steel frame creaks. Ours doesn't. Sisal between the iron and the frame and the screws NOT over-tightened. Our cladding is Hebel panel, even more soundproofing.
Even if the termites eat the paper off the Gyprock (they have!!) the house won't fall down.
Cheers

Originally Posted by GeoffS

I have never found any timber (treated or otherwise) that termites won't eventually make a meal of - even if it kills them!!
Cheers

G'Day Geoff,
Cypress Pine, seems to be an exception to termites.
It's also the only timber hereabouts.

What am I building my extension out of?????

Gal Steel frame

I might be slow,
But Boy! am I rough

Count

Gday Trevor how you goin, hoping you might know what the most common species of hardwood is used for F27 KD for window lintels?