Thread: Finishing Ripped Timber

Youre spot on outback, how else can we learn new things;

Why just lately ive been using my tongue to push the timber through the thicknesser....seems to work ok .

datthhler

The only safe way to climb cut in a router table is with a power feeder cranked down tight on the wood.

Originally Posted by dazzler

Hi Steve

Shouldnt the timber already be of uniform width off the tablesaw and only need smoothing. In this case if you were to rip it on the TS to size +1mm you could then use the triton router fence with the little fingers that go between the outfeed fence to take off the required amount, .5mm and do this twice so that you get back to the size and smoothness that u want. I thought that this was the design function of the Triton Router table:confused: .

If you do make a mistake and take too large of a bite then the end of the timber will splinter, go bang but wont jam.

We are talking about jointing the edge smooth or am I waaaay of track:confused: .

Enjoy the snow.

dazzler

Dazzler,

Snow. 2 and a half hours to drive 3 kilometers. Firs time I have been late for a demonstration. Finally get set up and the place is like a morgue. Everyone else was smart enough to stay off the roads.

Taunton press have a pretty good DVD called "Mastering wood working machinery" or something like that. In it, Mark Dudinsky simplifies the useage of the Jointer and the thicknesser.

Jointer is like a largu plane upside down. The bed leading up to the cutting blade is lowered or raised to obtain the desired depth of cut. The bed on the rear side of the blade is ideally set at the same hight as the blade's peak arc.

Run the concave side of the timber along the jointer. (Or is it convex? the side that would hold the soup if it was a spoon)
With each pass on the jointer, you take off the LOWEST points of the timber. (Not shouting, trying to simplify)

Once you have taken off enough low points so that you have a level plane all around the edge, you then run the timber through the thicknesser. Thicknesser is a flat bed with the blades spinning above the timber.

The thicknesser (sometimes called the planer) takes off the PEAKS of the top side of the timber. Once this has been done and you are down to virgin timber all around, you can flip the timber over and keep thicknessing until you have a board that has top and bottom faces parrallel.

From here you go back to the jointer and with your planed edge running against the jointer fence, you can joint an edge. This will now be square to the 2 faces.

From here you can go back to the thicknesser and thickness on edge, or to a table saw to rip and give a useable bit of firewood.

The differrences -

Jointer takes same amount off each time, depending on variances in timber. By its nature, there are often variances in timber.

Thicknesser has timber wedged between base and blades and so it is less succeptable to timber variances.

Relating this to the Triton.

Using the packing shims in the rear router fence, you in effect have a small jointer. Should take off 0.5mm, 1.0mm, 1.5mm or 2.5mm depending on where you put the shims.

This is the way to go if you just want to remove meat. Quick and safe(ish).

Running the timber between the rip fence on the left of the bit is like using a small thicknesser. Use this when all bits are almost there and you want them to all be the same size.

If making boxes or something that you want a higher degree of accuracy, I am under the impression and understanding that this is a technique that the engineers had in mind when they designed the RTA300.

I titled one of the earlier notes "Splitting hairs". The difference is marginal, but sometimes it is this attention to detail that makes the difference between a good piece and a really good one.

Either this is a valid technique, which can give more accuracy when it is required or it is an excessively dangerous technique that should not be attempted at home.

Mark chose to not try it. Good call. If in real doubt DON'T.

Would be sad if he and other woodworkers chose not to use one of the techniques the router table was designed for because it sounded similar to a dangerous technique.

Pancake time.

Steve

Originally Posted by TritonJapan

Dazzler,

Snow. 2 and a half hours to drive 3 kilometers. Firs time I have been late for a demonstration. Finally get set up and the place is like a morgue. Everyone else was smart enough to stay off the roads.

Taunton press have a pretty good DVD called "Mastering wood working machinery" or something like that. In it, Mark Dudinsky simplifies the useage of the Jointer and the thicknesser.

Jointer is like a largu plane upside down. The bed leading up to the cutting blade is lowered or raised to obtain the desired depth of cut. The bed on the rear side of the blade is ideally set at the same hight as the blade's peak arc.

Run the concave side of the timber along the jointer. (Or is it convex? the side that would hold the soup if it was a spoon)
With each pass on the jointer, you take off the LOWEST points of the timber. (Not shouting, trying to simplify)

Once you have taken off enough low points so that you have a level plane all around the edge, you then run the timber through the thicknesser. Thicknesser is a flat bed with the blades spinning above the timber.

The thicknesser (sometimes called the planer) takes off the PEAKS of the top side of the timber. Once this has been done and you are down to virgin timber all around, you can flip the timber over and keep thicknessing until you have a board that has top and bottom faces parrallel.

From here you go back to the jointer and with your planed edge running against the jointer fence, you can joint an edge. This will now be square to the 2 faces.
From here you can go back to the thicknesser and thickness on edge, or to a table saw to rip and give a useable bit of firewood.
The differrences -

Jointer takes same amount off each time, depending on variances in timber. By its nature, there are often variances in timber.

Thicknesser has timber wedged between base and blades and so it is less succeptable to timber variances.

.

Steve

Good description Steve.

However a couple of points. You should joint face first as you said but then do the edge with the jointed face against the fence.

Thickness or (plane) the edge first whilst the timber is at maximum thickness then do the other face. Thin timber can sometimes "roll" in the thicknesser.

Before anybody nitpicks, you do face and edge on jointer, thickness unjointed edge until clean and parallel, turn timber over and thickness to size on jointed edge. Same on faces.

Thanks .

That makes sense.

Working with wood is very similar to cooking.

Not only the ingredients, amounts and techniques are important, but the order in which things are done is too.

Similar to cooking, doing too much (cutting / adding salt) is hard to undo.

Another snowy day to demonstrate in.

Cheers

Steve

Originally Posted by TritonJapan

Relating this to the Triton.

Using the packing shims in the rear router fence, you in effect have a small jointer. Should take off 0.5mm, 1.0mm, 1.5mm or 2.5mm depending on where you put the shims.

This is the way to go if you just want to remove meat. Quick and safe(ish).

Running the timber between the rip fence on the left of the bit is like using a small thicknesser. Use this when all bits are almost there and you want them to all be the same size.

---8<---

Either this is a valid technique, which can give more accuracy when it is required or it is an excessively dangerous technique that should not be attempted at home.

Mark chose to not try it. Good call. If in real doubt DON'T.

Would be sad if he and other woodworkers chose not to use one of the techniques the router table was designed for because it sounded similar to a dangerous technique.

Steve, glad to see someone bring this "feature" up... I know a few people who're wary of it. The damned feed-direction arrow on the table has a lot to answer for. Methinks Tritn would be best served printing two arrows on the table-top, one on each side of the router bit to denote the correct direction when feeding timber to that side of the bit. As all routerers should know, it's when you feed from the wrong direction and the timber's "pulled into" the bit that most disasters happen.

In normal mode (from memory) you feed the timber into the bit with the fence on the right and the wood passing to the left. With the bit rotating antic/wise this has the effect of pushing the wood back at the feeder and into into the fence.

In "thicknessing mode" the correct direction to feed the timber is with the fence on the left and the timber to the left of the bit. ie. from the other end of the table! Again, the bit rotation forces timber back into the feed but in this case it tries to push the timber away from the fence.

Featherboards or those... errr... Triton fingers not only control kickback, but help hold the timber against the fence. And it makes a LOT of difference to the end results both in finish and adrenalin factor.

Skew,

Thanks for the comment.

Each time I translate a manual for Triton or other product, I am faced with the same dilema that Triton was. "Who do I need to write this for?"

In the end, I / we need to prepare something that will be safe for the user that has the least experience as it is this user who is most likely to make an honest mistake.

I would love to be able to go into more detail to help keen users advance their technique but it is the 1 or 2 users that will attempt a technique before fully understanding its nuances and before reading the cautions and warnings that make us put the brakes on for everyone.

An "Attempt this at your own risk" section that highlighted the advantages and risks of climb cutting and other "Risky techniques" would, I feel be appreciated by many as it would open the door to some really neat techniques. I doubt that it will ever get done, for fear of litigation from the guy who tries and mucks up.

The joy I have with working with trades men is learning the novel techniques they use to solve problems.

One example I recall was when Hanging the facia board on my house. Due to the slope, it was about 2.5 stories off the ground. Using clamps, supports and my hands, we were able to hold the board in place. Too high for a ladder and no scaffold available. The builder wedged a nail in the claw of the hammer an was able to get it started with a one handed, blind swing.

I was duly impressed and hence have no problem paying trades men a decent fee. The easy stuff most of us can do. It is the tricky stuff that makes the difference.

(interesting side note...One of the hammers I inherited from my grandfather had a slot on the rear of the hammer, just above the claw with 2 spring loaded bearings designed to hold nails for this purpose. Haven't seen a new hammer with this yet) Then again, air guns make this less necessary.

Dear OH&S, I apologise for using unsafe practices. Very silly and dangerous. Do not try this at home. This should only be attempted by highly trained and skilled professionals using the apprpriate and approved safety equipment and under supervised conditions. No liability will be accepted for any injury caused by person or persons attempting this technique.

You get the point.

Steve

Just a final note, a few members suggested using the normal outfeed fence being packed with a shim so that I would get a nice smooth surface. I think this would act like a power plane on its side :confused:

Yes this would give me a surface square to to the underlying face but there would be no guarentee that this surface is parallel to it's opposite face.

The purpose of this timber was to produce a reveal for a doorway which would have architrave on both sides and the surface finish would be clear lacquer. Therefore it needs to be square in all angles, flat on each face and parallel as I cant use putty to hide discrepancies.

Anyway, got the timber now and can spend the holidays fitting and lacquering

Oh what fun Ho Ho Ho

Once you have one face and one edge flat and square to each other, the rest should be fairly simple.

Personally I'd run it through my table-saw again, good face down and good edge to the fence. But at the moment I'm getting a "baby's-bum" finish from my saw and I'm taking full advantage of it.

How are you with a hand-plane?