Thread: Restoring my MK3 Top

Yes.

What prep, paint and spray setup were you using?

For starters, have a look at the tutorials here - Custom Spray Mods - YouTube

The tops were originally painted in a baked enamel, I think. You're not going to get that sort of finish unless you use a 2k isocyanate based paint, which instantly adds a proper spray booth and air-fed respirator to your equipment list; however if you are using an enamel finish, have a look at the kilrust epoxy fortified metal colours as they can be sprayed directly onto bare steel.

More information is required on what method you were using!

I was using White Knight stuff. Rust Converter, Metal Primer, Spray Enamel. The rust converter is pretty good stuff, but it's a bit of a pain to get off if you let it dry on. Does keep the metal from rusting in the mean time though.

I cleaned it back to bare metal, as much as I could, rust converted the rest. I tried using the metal primer on the back, but it's really far too thick, and then re-reading the spray enamel tin said it could be used on bare or lightly rusted metal. After all the wire brush work I did on it, I'd say it qualifies. So I did the top straight in the white knight spray enamel. I checked it once it dried, and although the finish is far from perfect, the bits WITHOUT bugs or water spots are very smooth. I think if I give it a light sand to take out the high spots, and give it another coat, it should come out pretty good. The entire back is painted with metal primer, so I won't bother to remove that. It's dried ok, if not perfect, and that surface doesn't really need to be smooth anyway. I'll give that a coat of the spray enamel too though.

I am slightly worried about the durability of the finish. I'd like it to at least not scratch easily. I'll have to check it when it's dried properly. I also thought I'd give it a going over with some turtle wax or something, make it extra smooth. Not sure if that might affect wood though. I have a few car products lying around, I'll see if I can find a durable polish, I think I saw something like that lying around.

I figure I'll give this another go, because it's not actually THAT bad. I was planning on perhaps upgrading to the new 2000 workcentre at some point, as I really don't have space for a lot of machines. It's a lot easier to get bits for that one, like the router top etc, so it seems like it'd be a good way for me to make the most of my limited space. I could afford to buy a new 2000 now, but it'd seriously eat into my budget for other tools, and I'm not keen to go the 2nd hand route again so soon :P

On that note, how does the 2000 compare to the Mk3? Would a properly restored Mk3 be the better setup?

In order of increasing hardness and durability:
Enamel
Acrylic lacquer
2k baked enamel

You can also wait a week or so and then colour sand and compound the surface (wet sand with 1500 - 2000 grit followed by using a cut and buff car polish).

As for the tritons, I can't say, never used them!

Tested the paint with my fingernail, managed to easily scratch it. Sadness

Will have to give the polish a go.

Give it at least a week to harden! Takes that long for enamel to harden up a bit - even acrylic needs about a week before hitting it with the cutting compound.

Ahh! Good to know. Was looking at second hand tritons again :P Once bitten, twice shy. There is one in pretty decent knick a little ways from me I reckon I could get for $250, maybe $300. The more I spend on that though, the less I can spend on other shop gear I probably need, like a thicknesser, or a router, or a bandsaw, or timber or anything else. That said, even if this triton table is salvageable, it's not that big a deal. I paid $230 for the entire setup, including a brand new Irwin blade (40T) RRP $50, and quite a nice old 9 1/4" Hitachi circular saw (PSU-9), which is marginally gruntier than my 9 1/4" Makita of similar age. Much more solid too, far too heavy for me to use by and comfortably, but perfect for mounting as a table saw

How long should I wait before sanding back the existing coat? Not completely off, just smooth enough I can lay on another coat. Also, any suggestion on how to wipe it down before the second coat?

I love this forum. Every time I get an email notification I feel a bit chirpier

Today was the big day! I used the "Gazebo" off a kid's swimming pool and a $12 Kmart tarp cut in half to make myself a little spray room out on the lawn. It looks like the circus came to town. It's a bit dark now but I might take a photo tomorrow :P

Sanded back the work top. Initially I used some coarse grit garnet paper... for like one swipe. That was another instant and obvious mistake, but atleast reasonably fixable. I then went about sanding back the rest with yellow sandpaper which I assume is painter's stuff, and it did a beautiful job. Whiped the surface down with some turps on a rag, set it up on saw horses in my little paint hut, and emptied an entire can on the top

This time I took my time, made sure I had the surface flat, and took a lot of long light passes, which did a pretty good job. I cheated a little, and sprayed harder on the spots where there were the paint was scratched away to metal, as the paint sprayed on thin was struggling to find it's way into the grooves. My theory was that thicker paint sprayed directly onto those areas would self-level and work their way into the grooves. Looks like it's come up pretty well. So long as not too many bugs find their way onto it, it should be good

Obviously I can only paint one side at a time, so I'm wondering, how long before it's safe to turn it over without marking the paint on the top surface? It says 8 hours on the tin, and 16 hours to a second coat, but I think I might leave it a day or two for it to set proper hard. Then I can whipe off any insects and hope they only got their legs stuck and haven't left any big smear holes in the paint

PS. Just a quick update, went to check on it. Only two bugs this time! Those scratches will need another coat though, as they are still visible. The surface is lovely and smooth, with a bit of wax it should happily take boards across it. My only concern now is that in a few places, the paint has lifted for some reason. Not really sure why. I'll just sand it back and hit it with another coat. I might not have wiped those parts clean enough (won't make the same mistake with the underside).

Turps can leave an oily finish and is not really suitable for cleaning metal prior to painting....you can get away with it for some oil based enamels, but.....

...the correct stuff (in decreasing order of recommendation) to use is Wax and Grease remover/Prepsol, Paint thinners or acetone. The way to use them is: pour a little onto a clean rag, wipe, discard rag, pour a little onto a (new) clean rag, wipe, discard rag, and so on. You can chuck the rags in the wash to re-use. For something like a triton top you'd probably go through 2-3 rags per side.

Wear rubber gloves. The Ansell Super gloves are probably the best and will make sure that you don't get skin oil on the metal (important), and you don't end up with defatted skin or thinners in an open cut (ouch).

You'll typically need three passes of paint to build up a coat. When spraying, the spray pattern should overlap the last by 50%, and, to improve atomisation from the can, chuck the can in a sink full of hot (50-60 degree) water for ten minutes before starting. Spray a coat on, wait a few minutes for it to flash off (become touch dry), spray another, flash off, etc.

If you don't leave it for the flash off period, you can get a build up of solvent which can't evaporate which can do nasty things to the next coat. Check your paint can for the actual flash off time - 'a few minutes' is the flash off time for acrylics and 2k enamels; other enamels take longer.

Wish I'd known all that before I started! Even so, most of the top is fine. It's just one or two spots the paint has lifted, probably from me laying it on way too thick. Too late to go back and NOT use turps to clean the metal, or not get my fingers on it, cause that ship has sailed :P The good news is it doesn't seem to have done any damage yet (spots I touched with my hands are fine). What I need is something to use to clean the dust and grime off between coats, particularly after I've sanded back an ugly bit. I used turps again today, it seemed to work fine. You just have to wait for it to evaporate off. Pure alcohol would be better I'm sure (total evaporation), but I imagine water would be much much worse, so I went with what I had.

Interesting thing you say about the trapped solvent. I wonder if that's why I've got the flaking? Either way, I'll make sure I wait next time. I'd say that the White Knight Epoxy Enamel I'm using has a pretty decently long flash off time, as even after an hour or so it's possible to leave the impression of your finger print, even if no paint comes up on your hand. That might ALSO be my fault for not waiting long enough between coats. Spray painting is totally new to me, but I think I'm getting the hang of it.

Definitely going to try the hot water trick next time. HOWEVER I only have one can left and I cbf to go to Bunnings, so the top is probably only going to get what's leftover from the bottom (which in fairness won't need as much as it doesn't need to be as pretty). At this point the surface of the table is "Good Enough". It's not perfect, but it is functional. I feel like I'll be revisiting this project at some point though. When I get a proper spray gun, instead of a can, I might clean off the top again, and give the whole thing a going over with proper Triton Orange. I'm sure the formula is out there somewhere.

Thusfar I think the main lesson I'll take away is to be patient, and to wait for the paint to dry before trying to fix mistakes. Going to keep my painting booth too, it's awesome. Atleast until I get some good filtration/ventilation in the workshop :P

Alcohol isn't a good pre-paint solvent as it doesn't dissolve all that much. Save it for drinking!

If you want to add to that list of pre-spray solvents you can add acid/alkali baths (for aluminium) and sandblasting for industrial size projects such as bridges.

If you are thinking of buying your own spray gun, watch some of the tutorials in that earlier link before you even start looking for a gun.

If I do buy a spray gun, it's long down the list of tools I want to get :P

I used turps because I knew it would evaporate, so it was more of a lubricant for the dusting cloth than anything else. Wasn't really expecting it to disolve anything. I would have used methylated spirits, but I was concerned that it might affect the enamel, which wasn't completely cured.

PS. I did look at buying a sand blasting cabinet a few years ago, apparently the shells of nuts make a great blasting material. I think it might have been a specific one, walnut maybe. The idea was that they were hard, but also bouncy, so they sort of bounced the paint off. If I look at doing stuff with metal I will seriously consider getting one, but that'll need a bigger shop. Plus I never got to do metalwork in highschool, as the one time I actually managed to take the unit as an elective, the metalwork teacher was being subbed be an arts teacher, so we didn't even touch the lovely metalworking tools all around the shop.

I have to say that a small blasting cabinet is on my 'want' list; they're cheap enough these days, I just need room for it!

Yeah, wire wheels suck ><

I'd hate to have to clean up a really big surface with one, they wear out too fast, and if you're not careful and you get a stray wire, it can leave some seriously deep scratches. And forget corners, nooks and crannies.

And here is the circus tent I mentioned:

Circus Tent.jpg

It's tied down to 8 bricks, and it's survived the wind so far quite well. It hasn't kept the bugs out as well as I'd hoped, they like to hide inside on the ceiling. I might need to introduce a spider or something :P

It does do an admirable job of keeping the rain off, and keeping the paint off everything, so I'm pretty chuffed with it really. Not bad for an old kiddie pool and a cheap tarp.