Thread: Safety Check at Triton Meeting

Carry, list the recommendations. Then we will be in a better position to comment.

More of the nanny state kicking in.
Over protectionalism at work again.

Im all for safe work practices, I was before all this wrapping in cotton wool thing started, but please there has to be a limit.

Al

Originally Posted by DPB

Carry, list the recommendations. Then we will be in a better position to comment.

It's a bit lengthy but here is the interim report:

In relation to our Club’s situation the following pertinent items were raised
1) No signs were erected stating “Dangerous Machinery In Operation”.

2) No signs were erected stating “No Smoking

3) Lighting on entrance to area over brick stairs was unlit.

4) Loose power cords on floor are considered dangerous.

5) Floor being painted concrete with open cracks and being uneven is considered slippery and dangerous especially when saw dust is present on the surface. Having old carpet placed under machines could also lead to tripping.

6) No fire extinguishers were erected and signed.

7) No procedures were set out in the case of fire. ie Collection area and evacuation.

8) Tools, machines and power cords should be regularly inspected, approved and tagged.

9) Power supply should be dedicated to machines with adequate breakers.

10) No members have a training certificate to teach members or visitors how to operate saws routers and machinery.

11) First Aid Kit is considered inadequate for the Club’s operation. He suggested and bought along a Level B Kit. The Club purchased this kit at a cost of $148.14.

12) There should always be a member present who has basic training in first aid.

13) Mr XXXXX suggested that he sights the insurance policy details. Concerns are committee and or members liabilities if an accident occurs, Triton’s involvement, where do they stand?, duty of care, where does the Club sit, as the insurer is interstate does it include Work Cover Rules in NSW.

14) It was observed that 4 members were working or looking closely on around the router table. This was considered a very dangerous situation. No more than 2 persons should operate or be close to 1 machine. This should be strictly policed.

15) Mr XXXXXX asked for a copy of the Club’s Safety Rules and this was given to him.

16) Concern was expressed that the Club does not have a formal lease agreement with the building owner.

Summary: Mr XXXX is to write (email) to the Club his company’s suggested recommendations for the Club’s consideration. At this stage there is no cost involved for this report.

In relation to items 4,5 and 9, I would like to make the following suggestion:

Install a raised floor section across the width of the hall by approximately say 6 metres to be a designated work area. Joists could be of pine, dynabolted to the concrete floor. Flooring could be floor grade chip board screw fixed to joists for easy removal. Edges could be splayed down to concrete floor.

A dedicated power circuit could be laid beneath floor with two double floor GPOs located beneath the two Triton Work Stations. Dedicated circuit would need 20amp breaker with an overall earth leakage breaker. We would probably need the Convent’s approval and Peter could advise who their electrician is. Members and self could fix the floor.

A committee meeting is arranged for Tuesday 7th March 7:30PM at XXXXXX’s home to discuss all items listed. We should have Uneedit’s report by this time.

Y'know, none of that stuff seems outrageous.

When you think about it without the red-light hat on, these ideas could help prevent a future disaster accident from occuring.

Another question worth raising is about the club structure. Is it incorporated? What protection for office bearers is there in case of a claim fagainst the group? It's very hard to legislate against stupidity, but what happens when some thick dork ignores all the safety protection, signs etc, and cuts his or someone elses arm off?

The point is, that in this day and age, we have to deal with this stuff. It's a different world out there, and it's infested with lawyers...

woodbe.

Who invited him?

Thank whoever invited the OH&S visitor.

Most of the recommendations seem to already be in some of the Clubs safety rules already.

With Stuart's permission, I used the Holmesglen Club's safety policy as a guide when helping the Japanese clubs to set up.

Last weekend I was in Hokkaido (Northern Japan) at a trade show. The Japanese are waaaay behind in safety issues. There was a wholesaler demonstrating the use of a lathe with a knotty branch that looked like it would make good kindling.

No guards, spectators crouding all around, front, back and nuzzling up sideways.

I am not a turner, but have read enough stories to understand that is is not unheard of for pieces to try their hand at orbit.

Loose cords are one thing, combine them with a number of spectators around a moving machine and a slippery floor with no suitable first aid kit or anyone with first aid training and anyone injured would have fairly solid grounds for a suit. Worse than that, someone might get hurt!

Many of us have had a fright and admitted later that we were not paying attention. This is why safety policies are a damn good idea. They make the tedious easy.

Most clubs I have visited have an average age of members where a small trip on un-lit stairs will break brittle bones. We all work too bloody hard to spend retirement in a cast.

Ozwinner, I understand your frustration at ever encroaching regulation. Which of the recommendations do you think is a wast of time?

We are having tougher safety standards because unions, workers and insurers have all said that unnecessary accidents are not acceptable in a developed society.

Looking at what it would cost to implement all of the recommendations, and the going rate for a finger (Yes, there are rates for body parts), I can see no reason why the club would not want to implement any of them.

Take care out there!

Steve

You know, most of us would think that list is crap - until some di*#head club member trips on a cord, chips a tooth, and sues the club for $1m.

I guess many of us were brought up in a time of "accidents happen", but those days are sadly gone (refer: public liability insurance premiums).

The club organisers are putting themselves at considerable risk, unless they can guarantee that every member of the club isn't an a$$hole. And even if they could, if, god forbid someone were electrocuted on a bad cable, you can't guarantee that their families aren't a$$holes instead.

I am no lawyer, but possibly a solution is to include a liability waiver in the club membership forms that everyone would sign? Along the lines of "I promise to never sue you for anything, even if you do it to me on purpose". I don't know if such a thing is even legally permissible, but it would probably be cheaper in the long run.

And it would help bring back some "old fashioned values" were blokes just sit around and dick with their tools...

I'd make some moves on the fact that the committee and members may be liable, as the first thing. That includes pursuing assets, i.e. the house does it?

Also consider the cascade effect:
Scenario - the unlit brick stairs catches someone out, they stumble and trip on the loose cables on the floor, then fall onto the concrete floor/edge of the router table.... Whoops, no first aid trained person and no first aid kit anyway. "so thats why he said to put in a light hey?"
If they need expensive surgury, and have private health insurance, and decided to use that to get their needed surgury; the health fund will pursue the club's insurer for the cost. The insurer will inspect the premises and find the violations and refer to a clause in the contract that mentions "due care" and says they will only cover 30% of the costs, the club to pay the outstanding liability.
Your club starts to think, do we engage a solicitor or sell all the assets and start doing lamington drives to cover all the costs?

I had an accident at home once: an 8" cut, thru to the bone, around the eye socket, muscles needing reattachment and ligaments spliced. 4 hours of micro-surgery and 4 days in hospital.
Just an accident.
It cost the insurance company just over $5400. I reckon a spinny metal thing with a horse or so behind it could cause an injury or two.

Thanks for the honest replies. Strangely enough there was a first aid kit, 2 members were trained but I guess as a visitor that was not obvious. Point taken. guess we have some changes to make both physical and stuctural (paperwork, insurance info etc). Thanks again.

Originally Posted by TritonJapan

Ozwinner, I understand your frustration at ever encroaching regulation. Which of the recommendations do you think is a wast of time?

Ok I concede, close the club down, no skin off my nose.

Al :confused:

Originally Posted by John G

I guess many of us were brought up in a time of "accidents happen", but those days are sadly gone (refer: public liability insurance premiums).

I would re-phrase this. "Those days are happily gone forever!"

Accidents don't just happen, they are planned.

This inspector was simply making observations about the plans your club has in place to have an 'accident'.

I can't imagine anything more pitiful than someone in pursuit of a hobby being a victim of someone else's failure to foresee the obvious. These so-called 'accidents' can be life-altering events. They can rob a person and his dependents of a livelihood and a normal life.

Take every step to implement this consultant's recommendations as soon as humanly possible. And remember, as your club membership renews itself, train and re-train your members. The hand you save may be your own.

Now you are doubly buggered. Now these have been listed and pointed out to the club, if anything on the list occurs, the 'victim' can use the list to show the club was notified of the hazard, and did not act on it.


Saying that, looking at the list, it seems pretty reasonable.

First Aid
Fire equipment and contingency plans
Trip hazards
Electrical safety

It all looks pretty CDF for a woodworking club.

Originally Posted by John G

I am no lawyer, but possibly a solution is to include a liability waiver in the club membership forms that everyone would sign? Along the lines of "I promise to never sue you for anything, even if you do it to me on purpose". I don't know if such a thing is even legally permissible, but it would probably be cheaper in the long run.

...

Not worth the paper such waiver is written on. It is against public policy and as such has no legal effect and may harm the club more in the long run as a jury would take that as the club having known it had unsafe practices.:mad:

As others have said, incorporate your club to obtain limited liability, have adequate public liability insurance and reform your practices to make it safe.

Don't plan on having accidents but plan to avoid them.

Peter.

It is with regret that I announce the closure of my local Triton Users Club. Thank you to the above mentioned people for their advice both publicly and personally to my e mail address. After investigation we found that we were incorporated and had adequate insurance, first aid trained people and even an OH&S trained member. Our work practices and set up could have been better (understatement) but nothing that could not be fixed with a bit of soul searching and referring to other clubs' practices.

The committee resigned and the remaining members were not prepared to meet for show and tell etc for a period of 6 months till we found a venue and corrected the work practices.
Triton have already been contacted and they have told us where the equipment needs to go (They donated a WC + saw).
What is really frustrating is that there are people out there who are very keen to learn/talk about/share etc woodworking experiences. For a small membership fee they could have regular contact with ex-chippies, builders and handymen.
Many thanks again to the people who responded to my request.

Carry Pine