Thread: Triton plunge drill 18 months on.

Dalejw,

You have summed the drill up fairly well.

Triton chose to run with a NiCad battery for the drill as it is more suited to occasional use and is far cheaper than the NiMh batteries.

As I sell the drills here, I had to do a bit of research on the pros and cons of the different battery types.

Here is what I came up with.

Price, NiCad is about half the price of the NiMh
Power to weight, NiMh holds and delivers more power for its weight.
Charging time, NiMh charges much faster then NiCad
Shelf life, NiCad holds its charge on the shelf much longer than NiMh, which means that if you use a tool occasionally and do not want to charge it before you use it, the NiCad may be preferable
Life, NiCad will give many more life cycles than NiMh.

Based on these observations, if you are going to be using a cordless tool frequently and heavily, NiMh is the way to go. If however your cordless tool is fairly specialised and is not going to be your workhorse, NiCad are the way to go.

I have a number of Bosch Blue and Green tools. Depending on what I am doing, I select the battery for the job. If I am building a display and will be working all day, the NiMh go in the bag. If I am just carrying the tool for "Just in case", the NiCads.

Sadly, each manufacturer seems to develop a unique battery shape so you cannot use another maker's battery in your product. I am sure this is good for sales, bloody inconvenient and not the best for the environment.

Wish GMC would develop a range of battery adaptors so you could use a Bosch battery with a GMC tool and visa versa. Somehow though, I think a product like that would have to be a self made one, or a patent violating black market job.

As for the stiffness of the selector ring, I found my first samples were too stiff as well. Later models have improved.

I have replaced 3 or 4 drills in Japan. 3 for manufacturing carelessness and one for the charger.

I personally love the drill and use the plunge feature more than I thought I would. Find I attempt tasks that I would have not tried in the past for want of a drill press on site.

Want to see an after market NiMh battery and charger kit.

Also want to see a smaller drill with the plunge feature. On the small one, forget the hammer function and add an impact function, choice of battery type and you will have the biggest selling drill in Japan.

Any other drill stories?

Steve

I bought the plunge drill about 12 months ago and so far haven't had to make warranty claims. I'm only a weekend renovator though.

The selector ring is VERY stiff though and always has been, especially getting in and out of hammer mode. Personally I think the plunge springs could be even stronger.

About 3 months in I did have a time when the plunge mech just wouldn't come out from the fully retracted position. After much swearing, mild shaking and threatening it with a return to Bunnies, it just started working again!

On the whole though, it has been a good experience. It's very useful for drilling straight lock holes through doors.

I find the big black circle that the end of the plunge mech leaves can be overcome by fitting one of the larger extension thingees. This also gives you more surface area to help you to get it dead perpendicular, but there isn't always enough room for this.

I think the biggest problem I have with it is the fact that they haven't used decent NiCD cells either. The fact that the battery died after a year is an indication of dodgy cells. For that year the tool really was subject to only occasional use and the battery lost power for about 2 months before it finally died.

I have a BOSCH green drill that has had a stack more use than this and is still on it's original 2 batteries after 3 years hard slog. It also charges in just over an hour.

The quicker you charge a battery, the less it's life you get before it dies. I'm sure that's why they've gone for a 3 hour charge. It sort of smacks of we'll use the longer charge time so we get some life from cheaper cells. If I was still on the original batteries after 3 years, fair enough but the batteries have died really quickly. The longer charge time isn't really a valid argument when you are using decent cells. It's common practice to charge 7.2v battery packs for use in remote control cars directly off a car battery (7 minute charge) IF you use decent cells to start with.

I'm not sure the shelf life is a valid argument either against using the NiMH. If it was going to be 6 months between uses maybe but who buys a $300 drill to use every 6 months.

Not trying to pick holes in your arguement Steve, please don't take it as that! More just that I've had a fair bit of experience in batteries and charging systems and even if these are NiCD cells, they are really crappy NiCD cells.

G'day all.
Just yesterday when using my Triton 18V drill and cursing the battery again I wanted to post this. Dale beat me to it. I also purchased one of the first ones on the market. The drill itself is great. The problem is the batteries (charger is OK). I could be considered an occasional user with this drill. Mainly for pilot holes and then use the Ryobi to turn in the screws. The Ryobi 14.4V of the same age as the Triton. The Ryobi outperforms the Triton regards battery oomf and life at half the price. The Ryobi even has an indicator to let me know how much charge is left. The Triton battery will still be Ok and next morning it is completely flat. (No - the led light was not on).
Thus the battery performance has been disappointing to say the least.:eek: I may consider repacking with quality battery cells.
Maybe Triton can consider a Li battery as a battery replacement (charger as well).
Regards
Les

:eek::eek:

$169 !!!

Bunnings Special

Finally eh 2W - bet that credit card smoked it's way out of your wallet! (Or did you go to Mitre 10 to get an additional 10% off the difference )

Just phoned a battery specialist. Will cost $140 and upwards to repack one battery :eek: :eek: .
maybe will check the bunnings special. Thank you 2 words.
Regards
Les

Originally Posted by lesmeyer

Just phoned a battery specialist. Will cost $140 and upwards to repack one battery :eek: :eek: .
maybe will check the bunnings special. Thank you 2 words.
Regards
Les

You're welcome

Originally Posted by dalejw

I think the biggest problem I have with it is the fact that they haven't used decent NiCD cells either. The fact that the battery died after a year is an indication of dodgy cells. For that year the tool really was subject to only occasional use and the battery lost power for about 2 months before it finally died.

I have a BOSCH green drill that has had a stack more use than this and is still on it's original 2 batteries after 3 years hard slog. It also charges in just over an hour.

The quicker you charge a battery, the less it's life you get before it dies. I'm sure that's why they've gone for a 3 hour charge. It sort of smacks of we'll use the longer charge time so we get some life from cheaper cells. If I was still on the original batteries after 3 years, fair enough but the batteries have died really quickly. The longer charge time isn't really a valid argument when you are using decent cells. It's common practice to charge 7.2v battery packs for use in remote control cars directly off a car battery (7 minute charge) IF you use decent cells to start with.

I'm not sure the shelf life is a valid argument either against using the NiMH. If it was going to be 6 months between uses maybe but who buys a $300 drill to use every 6 months.

Not trying to pick holes in your arguement Steve, please don't take it as that! More just that I've had a fair bit of experience in batteries and charging systems and even if these are NiCD cells, they are really crappy NiCD cells.

Comparing apples for apples. Nicad batteries require frequent charge/discharge cycles to obtain maximum life. The point you make about your Bosch which got frequent use vs. your Triton which got ocassional use identifies that it was possibly more your use of the tool which resulted in the poor battery life/performance

The charge time for the Triton is 1hr. If you were getting much longer then you would have had a warrantable fault.

Your statement about battery charge speed is incorrect. 3hr and 1hr charge batteries of any type are different as each are engineered to accept either the faster or slower charge rate. You can slow the charge rate down on a 1hr cell but you can't speed it up for a 3hr+ one

The RC battery you talk about is design for that rate. Check this is not a NiMi battery as my rc one is and it's a cheapy.

Lithium-ion (Li-Ion) batteries feature long shelf life similar to non rechargeable alkaline batteries and have similar lower current capacity. Both NiCad's
and Nickel Metal Hydride batteries loose charge due to poor shelf life properties. In comparison, NiMH batteries have a high self-discharge rate of approximately 30% per month and more. This is higher than that of NiCad batteries, which is
around 20% per month, but both types have higher current ratings over Li-Ion.

I have been dealing with a range cordless batteries in all types of application for around 24yrs so I have some background on the subject Hope this helps

I've noticed some Bunnings Warehouse's still have the old > $200 price (e.g. Maddington) for the drill and some have the new $169 one (e.g. Cannington). So if you want one for the bargain price of $152.10 you could use their price guarantee against each other

Tried that in the past - they refuse to play.

Originally Posted by woody62

Comparing apples for apples. Nicad batteries require frequent charge/discharge cycles to obtain maximum life. The point you make about your Bosch which got frequent use vs. your Triton which got ocassional use identifies that it was possibly more your use of the tool which resulted in the poor battery life/performance

I should qualify this, by occasional for me I mean a couple of cycles a week rather than a couple a day like the bosch. Still plenty of cycles to get decent battery life from a good set of cells.

Originally Posted by woody62

The charge time for the Triton is 1hr. If you were getting much longer then you would have had a warrantable fault.

I don't know anyone that has one of the drills that has it charging in an hour. I'm sure the original manual said 2 hours. Has the battery and charger changed? I'd like to hear from anyone who's drill charges in an hour as if there has been a change I want to hit triton up for the new charger of battery.[/quote]

Originally Posted by woody62

Your statement about battery charge speed is incorrect. 3hr and 1hr charge batteries of any type are different as each are engineered to accept either the faster or slower charge rate. You can slow the charge rate down on a 1hr cell but you can't speed it up for a 3hr+ one

The RC battery you talk about is design for that rate. Check this is not a NiMi battery as my rc one is and it's a cheapy.

The RC battery is a NiCd but it proves my point about using cheap cells rather than decent ones. I'd be a little bit less of if my $169 (as the price is now) had died after a year than the $279 I paid.

Originally Posted by woody62

Lithium-ion (Li-Ion) batteries feature long shelf life similar to non rechargeable alkaline batteries and have similar lower current capacity. Both NiCad's
and Nickel Metal Hydride batteries loose charge due to poor shelf life properties. In comparison, NiMH batteries have a high self-discharge rate of approximately 30% per month and more. This is higher than that of NiCad batteries, which is
around 20% per month, but both types have higher current ratings over Li-Ion.

Good to have some numbers on this. I would say the 20% - 30% difference in self discharge time isn't really a good enough reason to use the NiCd's over the NiMH. It's all about the price...

hey just wanna add something. I picked up a brand new Triton drill from bunnings for $120 ( was the last one and i worked it out with the managers)
gonna put it through some tests over the next week and i'll keep u posted.

very happy $120

Nice steal. Gumby - now, don't go green my little plasticine friend!