Thread: Accu-Burr Carbide Burnisher

That could be the answer for every novice, Derek! Turning a good burr reliably took me a good while to learn. I eventually discovered I was most often over-doing them and a lighter touch at a more shallow angle proved to be the recipe I needed.

However, despite many years of using card scrapers successfully (& they will always be 'card' scrapers to me, the name just befits a flat, rectangular piece of steel.. ), I sometimes make a complete dog's breakfast of preparing a scraper & have to start over. I think it's happening increasingly of late, as an effect of getting older & less co-ordinated, so maybe I need one of these little devices....

Cheers,

PS. I think the American terminology has some merit. They tend to refer to the #80 as a "cabinet scraper" which makes for a useful distinction. Patrick Leach uses the term in his "blood & gore", even though in the picture of the box he shows, Stanley just call it a 'scraper'. Then to add to confusion, the #12, which is essentially just a #80 in drag, Stanley called a "veneer scraper".

So go figure, as our cousins say......

Awesome write up, I was given one for xmas last year from my partner from HNT, truly a lovely tool. Unfortunately its been in storage as ive been moving house but as the workshop setup begins im sure to be using these soon.

Cheers,
Nathan

Derek,
Your not alone, I’ve never seen one either till you had posted it.

But have you used one of these?

Veritas Variable Burnisher with Blade | Carbatec



An if so how do they compare, I brought one years ago, but too be honest I’ve hardly used it at all so i really can’t make an honest review,

Cheers Matt.

Matt, I did not get on with the Veritas Variable Burnisher, but that was 20 years ago, and I learned to use a basic burnisher freehand. My simple burnisher has done me proud for 10 years. It will continue being used.

One of the areas the Accu-Burr does not do is draw out the steel (that would go for the Veritas Variable Burnisher as well) ...



Drawing out the steel creates more steel with which to create a burr. As seen, the burnisher needs a free end for this process. What I am going to do is try the Accu-Burr both with and without drawing the steel. If it is better with the latter, I shall remove one of the handles.

Link to my scraper sharpening article: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Woodwor...29Scraper.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by delbs

Awesome write up Ian!

I think you meant to direct that to Derek, Nate.....

Further to drawing out the steel, I tested this out today: first drawing out one clean edge, and then using the Accu-Burr on this, and again on an non-drawn out clean edge.

The result: drawing out the edge first creates a much larger shaving. It is easy to feel how much more the burr bites as you push the scraper.

I have removed one handle from the Accu-Burr and will use the smooth end for drawing out the edge before rolling the burr with the pre-set angle.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by IanW

I think you meant to direct that to Derek, Nate.....

Yes sorry that was for Derek. Reading forum with kids arounds a great recipe

Originally Posted by IanW

That could be the answer for every novice, Derek! Turning a good burr reliably took me a good while to learn. I eventually discovered I was most often over-doing them and a lighter touch at a more shallow angle proved to be the recipe I needed.

However, despite many years of using card scrapers successfully (& they will always be 'card' scrapers to me, the name just befits a flat, rectangular piece of steel.. ), I sometimes make a complete dog's breakfast of preparing a scraper & have to start over. I think it's happening increasingly of late, as an effect of getting older & less co-ordinated, so maybe I need one of these little devices....

Cheers,

PS. I think the American terminology has some merit. They tend to refer to the #80 as a "cabinet scraper" which makes for a useful distinction. Patrick Leach uses the term in his "blood & gore", even though in the picture of the box he shows, Stanley just call it a 'scraper'. Then to add to confusion, the #12, which is essentially just a #80 in drag, Stanley called a "veneer scraper".

So go figure, as our cousins say......

it'd be interesting to see what various catalogs say about the line of scrapers - if we could find enough of a write up to see who they were marketing them to. The timeline for the $80 suggests that it was intended for veneered work. Patrick mentions that it would be a thumb saver, but it's pretty aggressive and hard to use in the same way as a card scraper, and if it's set with a fine burr, it gets to be pretty aggravating to try to use like a scraper due to the taking apart and putting together and so on.

But when set a little heavier, it'd useful on something with a relatively heavy veneer.

not sure if it was the case in australia, but fancy veneers on factory made furniture (or at least an interpretation of them that could be made to a price point) dominated here in the early to mid 1900s.

the only scraper listed in the 1916 M/W catalogue is the #85 "for veneers, paint or glue".

...wait...just found the 112 "for veneers or cabinet work, excels with a toothed blade for scraping old paint and glue".

surprised the 80 isn't listed.

(edit: stanley's 1914 tool catalogue isn't much help. it does say that the handles on the 80 are raised for the protection of the user's hands (not busting knuckles). and it does refer to the 12 (which almost nobody uses) as specifically a veneer scraping tool.

the others have no more fitness of use statements than the wards catalogue. the mention of exceling to remove old glue and paint is interesting - anyone know of someone who has ever used their #112 to remove paint? or the 80?

I've bought three 80s over the years and none was ever set up to do neat work, but none had the dust of the last use in them - as in, i never found bits of shredded paint on a blade).

Derek, apart from usually giving you a larger burr, one of the things I read way back suggested that 'drawing' then rolling the burr adds to work-hardening & gives you a tougher edge. I've never done a careful comparison of a "double rolled" edge with just rolling the burr directly (which I sometimes do when in a hurry) so can't say how much more durable it may be, but it seems plausible. I almost always 'draw' the edge first anyway because one thing it does for sure is that it smooths out minor irregularities on the corner and the burnisher runs more smoothly & produces a finer edge when I turn the working burr.

Originally Posted by D.W.

......
- anyone know of someone who has ever used their #112 to remove paint? or the 80?
..........

Not my 112, but I've used my old 80 quite a bit for getting thick paint off recycled wood. I wouldn't use my 112 (Veritas clone) for such rough stuff, I'm a bit more respectful of a tool that cost me a goodly sum (& may have some resale value ), but I picked up the 80 for a pittance back before old tool prices went skywards. It's had a rough life (long before I got it), but is still capable of doing good work. I used it & the 112 quite a lot when I first acquired them, but my need for scraping planes has diminished greatly over the last 20 years or so, while my use of card scrapers has increased. As you (or someone) pointed out, they are far better for delicate work and can do heavy work when needed. At least for short bursts, until my thumbs & fingers protest....

Cheers,

Yessir - a former member of another forum - Dave Barnett (now deceased) once went on a fairly lengthy discussion of controlling the burr. At the time, I took note of what he said. It's more or less about getting the touch to determine amount and angle and how to set the edge from the start to extend the time between jointing/filing the edges. it's not the kind of thing that was so much valuable as a road map of steps - that's always "borrowing someone else's knowledge", which doesn't stick as long unless you like to refer to tablets. It was more spatial take-away things about burr direction and such.

I've seen a lot of peoples' planes when they've sent them to me (often wooden to refit) but had less opportunity to speculate about what people typically do with scrapers, but understanding what Dave was talking about is valuable if there's a desire to do more than just finish work, and especially to easily maintain something like a curved scraper for undulating work. I would guess that most of the problem isn't in the burr rolling on an ongoing basis, but the resistance to doing a good (and fast...good and fast isn't difficult) job keeping the edge in such a shape that it can be drawn out and rolled, and continuously and smoothly at the same time.

As you, experimenting also ended my use of fixtured scrapers back then and not much has changed now. I posted a rosewood topped les paul style guitar here a few years ago, and the bulk of the wood removal was scraped with an inexpensive teardrop-ish styled scraper and some fixed scrapers.

the others that are fixed - especially those like the 80, can give you some confidence that they won't "deflatten" flat things, but they can really get things out of flat quickly and when set too aggressively, often leave a not-so-great surface that requires a lot of following up.

Yes, I had a loong apprenticeship with card scrapers! I had a rocky start, like most novices with no-one to show us the 'easy' ways, but am now pretty much at home with them. It was the one tool we were not exposed to in my school woodwork programme, so I was well into my 30s when I first 'discovered' them (in an article in a very early FWW). I don't know how I got by without them, now!

But as most will discover sooner or later, they do their best work on hard & especially fine-grained woods (ebony is a dream scraping wood). Very few softwoods scrape well, but some, like our native "cypresses" (Callitris spp.) do. Eucalypts & their allies mostly scrape well but are hard on edges so you need to refresh often if working a larger area. Even normally good-scraping woods can cause you grief at times, I've struck pieces of New Guinea rosewood (Pterocarpus indicus) that are full of reaction wood that just tears away in furry strips unless you prepare the scraper meticulously & only use a very fresh edge. So it's not always your fault if you're having trouble with scrapers.

But I'll add my vote for the simple card scraper as a useful accessory in any woodworker's kit - a tool well worth 'coming to grips' with!


Cheers,

Originally Posted by D.W.

I would guess that most of the problem isn't in the burr rolling on an ongoing basis, but the resistance to doing a good (and fast...good and fast isn't difficult) job keeping the edge in such a shape that it can be drawn out and rolled, and continuously and smoothly at the same time.

David, having seen the photographs of the blades used when you were developing the sharpening technique using a polishing wheel (the name escapes me at the moment) I would be interested if some pics of a scraper could be taken before and after the drawing out part of the process and before the edge is rolled.

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

David, having seen the photographs of the blades used when you were developing the sharpening technique using a polishing wheel (the name escapes me at the moment) I would be interested if some pics of a scraper could be taken before and after the drawing out part of the process and before the edge is rolled.

You got it - i've not looked too much at them except when trying to make some higher hardness stainless scrapers to see if it was worthwhile (I think the answer to that is no - it's the age old trade off in time to sharpen vs. time used).

those didn't show much because they were hard and the burnisher didn't do much when drawing steel.

So, I'll do this sometime in the next week with 1095 and steel (hock's round burnisher - good enough that I have no reason to go bonkers and make some super hard one out of 52100 or something else), and maybe I'll compare that to 52100 and carbide.

I think I may have posted a video here before about my preference to bias the angle on a scraper and give up two of the edges. The outcome is better because it sets things up to really be on top of the game prepping and refreshing the edge that the burnisher reaches.

Absolutely key to getting results that can blend in with planing on some woods is having the burr be uniform like a plane iron edge and avoiding anything at all (even a bit of wood dust) rolling the burr - one light pass feeling the edge to ensure it's uniform (with the burnisher) and then the money passes, both drawing out and rolling the edge. literally less than a second to check and confirm.

I was concerned that the Accu-Burr, using two handles, prevented the process of drawing out steel prior to the formation of the burr/hook. Drawing out the steel creates a larger burr, and also work hardens the steel for a longer lasting edge.

I tested this out by drawing an edge with my usual burnisher, and then using the Accu-Burr to turn the hook. The resulting shaving was indeed larger as the edge bit more deeply into the wood. Consequently, I removed a handle so that one end of the Accu-Burr could be used to do duel duties.

The two burnishers, with the Accu-Burr at the front ...



Drawing out steel ...



Burnishing the hook (one hand used to hold the camera) ..



This is a nice tool. Not essential, but it provides a consistent hook.



Regards from Perth

Derek