Thread: Can't smooth with HNT Gordon smoother

Are you using the HNT the right way round? Hitting the adjuster with a hammer probably isn't the best practice either.

I simply turn the adjuster on my old Stanley No.4 a little bit and it removes gossamer thin shavings. Hopefully someone with knowledge of these things will speak up shortly.

Getting a HNT cutting can be a real fiddle until you are used to it. Patience is the key, sharp blade, lubricate the base and gentle taps to get the blade just right. It took me about half an hour with my (first) smoother but only a minute with the jointer. If you are at the wood show or come to Werribee area I'd be happy to help you work it out.

I would be tempted to flatten the sole of the plane if it was mine. Still got the instruction sheet that came with the plane?

Originally Posted by Groggy

Can't see the video.

Try this link (remove the spaces): www. you tube.com/watch?v=-6Ms-7jn0Xo

Originally Posted by Woodwould

Are you using the HNT the right way round?

I think so. You can use it either way round, push or pull. I assume that's what you meant? Both ways I have the same effect - no shavings.

Hitting the adjuster with a hammer probably isn't the best practice either.

That's the way Terry Gordon showed me to adjust it when I first bought it. A few light taps of the wedge to hold it all in place, then tap the front to pull the blade back, tap the blade to push it forward. Granted, I have zilch experience with these things myself - keen to keep learning though.

Originally Posted by Dan

I would be tempted to flatten the sole of the plane if it was mine. Still got the instruction sheet that came with the plane?

Now that's something I hadn't thought of. Thanks. The thing is that I've hardly used it at all since I bought it last year. I would expect that HNT planes were all tuned and tested before sale though.

I'll give it a good look with a straight edge tomorrow and see if that could be the problem.

Cheers,
Af.

G'day Af,

Just had a look at your video. Great idea to post a video. I had a few thoughts.

Firstly, with the LN plane, the shavings look thick to me. Too thick for smoothing. You seem to be putting a lot of effort into getting shavings. These observations suggest to me your blade is not sharp enough and you are trying to remove too much wood in each pass. Are you planing against the grain? Your plane stalls along the board in the video. If you are sure the LN blade is sharp, try winding the blade back a bit to get a fine continuous shaving along the length of the board. Then take a pass with the HNT. If the HNT is set finer than the LN, it is possible the HNT is just riding on the high spots left by the LN.

Second thought is to try using some softer wood (nice soft pine) to check your planes. Flatten a side with the LN or a power jointer then try the HNT.

Can you see light through the HNT's mouth?

Check the sharpness of your plane blades - get them really sharp. I push my blades into a piece of A4 printer paper to check sharpness. A sharp blade will slice into the paper, a dull blade will crush the paper.

I would not muck around with flattening the HNT before I excluded everything else (sharpness, testing on some dead flat softer wood)

Wish I was around the corner to you - I'd pop round and have a look.

Hi Af

If the Gordon is taking shavings at the start and end of the board, then the sole is not flat. The area around the mouth is not touching the board as the extreme ends have curved to create a slight banana shape. It planes at the start as then it contacts the wood. But in the centre of the board the blade is retracted.

You are using a short setting block for the plane. This helps disguise the problem since it covers just the mouth area, and the blade can project the correct distance as if the sole was flat. It would likely be forced deeper if you used a longer board. Anyway, this would not solve your problem.

You need to lap the sole of the plane. For this you can use 240 grit sandpaper. Scribble pencil lines over the sole first. Take a few strokes and check where the sole is being abraded. I'm pretty sure that it will be at the ends and not around the mouth. Keep going until the entire sole is scribble-free. You do not need to finish the wood on the sole with anything. Just use it - that will burnish the wood.

Now there is one other alternative - but this would be the case if you were taking shavings at the start and not at the end. In this scenario the problem would be the wedge. Simply, as you drive the plane forward, the wedge does not hold the blade firm, and slips, forcing the blade loose and causing it to retract. The solution here would be to reseat the wedge.

This could also be exaccerbated by the blade being dull and planing too hard timber.

Now a few other points.

I thnk that you need to look at the sharpness of your blades - if the LN is anything to go by. You are struggling to push it, although this may also be due to taking a very thick shaving. Too thick for a smoother (they look like shavings from a jack).

The other is that you are holding the plane too much side-on. You need to get behind the plane more and push forwards. In part this is caused by the way you are holding the knob. Your palm grasps it from the front of the plane (forcing you further forward). Try moving your palm more on top of the knob and pushing from the rear.

What do others think?

Regards from Perth

Derek

You can check for correct blade protrusion using some small offcuts - something about 10mm thick is ideal (not critical), and cut yourself some bits maybe 40mm long in the grain direction and wide enough to get hold of.

Turn the plane upside down, and run the 10mm edge of the block across the blade to see if it cuts, and how thick the shaving is. This is particularly useful for checking that the blade is protruding evenly across the width.

When you are taking nice thin shavings off the test block on both sides of the blade, the plane is ready to use on a long board. If it doesn't cut (but worked on the short test block) then most likely the sole isn't flat. Easily fixed following Derek's instructions.

As others have said, your LN plane is taking VERY thick shavings, and it doesn't sound as if the blade is very sharp. I was about to comment on your stance, but then noticed Derek has already done this. My thoughts exactly.

You know, it's nice to see a "please help" video here.


Just a thought, was the blade and wedge out of the plane for an extended length of time? That might be a consideration as the wedge pushes the sole flat......sort-of.

Probably your easiest way is to email the guys at HNT Planes and let them see the video and do it soon.

Then bring the plane to the Timber & Working with Wood show next weekend and talk to them about your problems.

It is obvoiusly a set up problem and something that can be easily rectified with a bit of hands on advice.

Here is the floor plan for the melbourne show and HNT Gordon planes are on stand 16,

And to be more helpful spend a bit of time on the forum stand, I am sure Greg could use more help

I note the usefull info about taking up more of a pushing stance.
How does this work when dealing with a board of this length or longer. Unless youy have gorilla length arms at some point you either run out of push or have to reposition your feet to get a continuous cut.
What is the recommendation?

If the plane is as sharp as it is supposed to be, and you're taking a sensible shaving, and the sole of your plane is nicely waxed, the effort to push the plane is minimal.

Once the cut is started, and your weight is forward and over the plane, walk along the edge of the bench maintaining even pressure on the plane.

WOW Thanks for all the awesome advice folks. Really helpful and useful. So here's what I did today ... I started back right at the start and immediately found one problem ...

My sharpening stone was not flat. When I last sharpened I started with my chisels and finished with my plane blades. The dish in the middle of my stones therefore didn't do terribly well at sharpening the middle of my plane blade. First problem fixed - nice sharp blades that cut paper (as per homesy135's tip)

Attachment 184648

I tried my LN smoother on a much finer setting on a less tough piece of wood. I adjusted my grip as Derek suggested (although I keep going back to old habits) and it took some really nice, thin shavings.

The HNT was up next. The sole was definitely banana shaped. After a few deep breaths, I passed it over some sandpaper stuck down to my table saw top. It soon came to be very nice and flat.

Back to the bench. Took a few swipes and it worked a lot better on the first few passes. Then not so much. I checked to see if the blade was straight, reseated it and still only bits of shavings.

I'll keep practicing and tweaking over the week. If I don't get much further I might bring it to Terry Gordon at the show next weekend and see what he thinks.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UjKmPB7nSM]Smoothing problem II - YouTube[/ame]

Cheers,
Af.

Hi Af

What wood is that?

My thoughts are that your blades are still not sharp enough, and/or you are taking too deep a shaving for a smoother. The plane should glide through the wood, and smoothly without a break in rhythm. I tuned up a common angle #4 WoodRiver for a visitor yesterday - sharpened the blade, smoothe the cap iron, and set it up. I was able to push the plane across a Jarrah board with one finger. That's how sharp the blade was. Common cutting angles (45 degrees) are easier to push than the half pitch of the HNT Gordon (I'm not sure how you have set up the LN #164), and so that do need to be especially sharp.

The other thing is the speed at which you push your planes. Slow down. Slow down a lot.

Place the toe of the plane on the end of the board, and just push it forward. Even speed. Don't ram it forward (as you are doing). You lose control that way.

Regards from Perth

Derek