Thread: Before and After

Looks a little different now!

If you have a decent tablesaw &/or bandsaw, the need for ripsaws diminishes a lot, but there are times when I can't use either because of safety concerns or because the piece to be broken down is too big & bulky for me to put over a powered saw (& what I can comfortably lift has gotten a bit lighter over the last 20 years!). My lovely old 5 to 3tpi Disston only gets a decent workout every 6 months or so, but when it's needed, I'm very grateful to have it. It did a grand job on these two large radiata beams I needed to halve, which were way too big & heavy for me to get over the bandsaw: 4 first piece ripped.jpg

My take is that the thumb hole is designed for the grip I used to see a few old blokes use when ripping - they held the saw vertically with teeth facing away from the body so the saw was cutting straight across the fibres like a bandsaw. It always looked awkward to me, but I never asked why they did it that way. I assume there was some advantage but I have never figured out what it might be, any saw cuts with a rougher action when the teeth are cutting at 90* to the fibres & angling the tooth line eases the action. I prefer to saw with the work on saw horses and the thumb hole is useless in that position because I need to screw my hand around the grip to get my thumb into the hole (my hands are medium-small), which isn't comfortable at all, so I use the 'conventional' hold, with index finger pointing forward & the thumb around the upper grip. If the mud wasps decide to fill the thumb hole in one day, I probably won't notice..

Anyway, whether you use your saw a lot or not, you've rescued it from some unfortunate end like rusting completely away, or finding itself under tons of garbage in landfill. You are now its custodian & there are sure to be future owners who will be grateful that saw was preserved to work another day....

Cheers,

Martin

The thumbhole saw was indeed designed and intended for two handed operation, but as Ian has implied it is not really intuitive as to exactly the way it could be used. My take is that it is there for the times during long rips as you begin to fatigue, but I agree that you are probably still better off using a single hand in conjunction with a sharp saw.

The attraction of the thumbhole saw is it's quirky, but brutish, look. I think only three Disston models used the thumbhole handle and normally only on rip saw versions although occasional crosscut saws do appear (and in a 28" handsaw), being the D8 (your saw), the D100 (a D8 with a wheat carved handle) and the ACME 120 (their premium no-set saw). These three saws used the same profile handle.

Various other models, I am thinking of the D20 series here, had provision on the handle to rest the thumb of the left hand on a cut away, but there was no hole as such. I am unsure of the timelines for thumbhole handles, but we should be able to narrow down the age of your saw from the medallion if you can post a close up.

Regards
Paul

Edit: Cancel the dating aspect as your saw was a Candian made version and dating from the medallion won't work. Canadian made versions found their way to Oz commonly as importation was cheaper being a colony.

I should also mention that thumbhole saws were really only intended to be used right-handed. You may recall that being left-handed was distinctly frowned up during those times and people were actively discouraged from displaying that preference. One aspect of the thumbhole that is not commonly mentioned is the hand hole itself is quite small and in some regards that is a plus unless you have a massive hand and can't comfortably hold the saw. The three fingered grip with index finger pointing down the side of the handle is almost mandatory: This is how it should be.

In later years with other models the hand hole increased in size noticeably and was in fact frequently used as an advertising plus. Phrases were coined such as "having a large roomy hand hole." This was often to allow a gloved hand in colder climates and the occasional well-trained gorilla.

Regards
Paul

Ooops! I posted in the wrong thread. This post deleted and moved to correct thread.

Sorry about that.

Regards
Paul

Paul , I was wondering for a moment about the Stiletto, but then I realised the thread where in knotted, tangled, twisted, intertwined and generally all tied up.
Thank all, I browse the net a tad and it suggests that with the Canada medallion the handle might have been made in Australia which is nice touch.

Ian, very impressed with your effort in cut some large beams. Tried the saw on thicker timber 130mm and each stroke would take about 6mm. Assuming a slowish pace, that is sustainable , say 6 seconds a stroke thats 17 minutes per metre. Not bad a trade-off if the alternative is to lift a tonne of timber but alot of of effort. I would need to designate a circular saw as an honorary hand hand tool and then perhaps use the saw the finish what is out of reach.

Ripping thinner Thinner timber say 30mm is not to bad - each stroke can push as deep as 25mm and 40 strokes or so is need for metre, and less drag. It possible to rip parts in short order, and can be a pleasant alternative,

The sawhorse I use might be of interest. Provide quite a few options for positioning timber and low enough to clamp under a knee (or foot). Can position on a diagonal as saw narrow stock inbetween. And its stable on uneven ground -(3 legs). Handy as stool and step as well. It main downfall is sometime I put timber or projects on top.

But work surface are magnets are they not?

IMG_6250.jpg

Originally Posted by MartinCH

.......Ian, very impressed with your effort in cut some large beams.....

Martin, they were the 'easy' part of that job (making a large trestle table which is described here if you can tolerate my long-winded story). I also ripped two chunks 500mm wide for the trestle legs (after hand flattening one side & edge of each). That job was definitely beyond the comfort zone of both saw & sawyer, especially as the saw was not sharpened properly when I started!

I didn't keep track of how long/how many strokes it took to finish the job, but it doesn't stand out in my memory as being too bad. Ripping the wide legs was the worst job, the planks were far too wide for the saw teeth to clear properly & worse still I had my saw sharpened poorly. But I had no other choice. If I'd had a strong helper I might've attempted bandsawing the beams, but it still would have been awkward to guide them over the saw - I envisaged some very wobbly cuts & a jammed blade at the very least.

Looking at the date of that thread, it was only a bit over 5 years ago when I made the table, and in the meantime, my strength & endurance levels have dropped noticeably, so not sure I could repeat that exercise without spreading it over many days!

Cheers,
Ian

Originally Posted by MartinCH

Paul , I was wondering for a moment about the Stiletto, but then I realised the thread where in knotted, tangled, twisted, intertwined and generally all tied up.
Thank all, I browse the net a tad and it suggests that with the Canada medallion the handle might have been made in Australia which is nice touch.

Martin

It was my mistake. I was entering posts in multiple threads and somehow I messed up. I have deleted that entry and moved it to the correct place.

I think the Canadian Disstons were made in Canada. The reason we see quite a few in Oz is that goods imported from Canada had a concessional importation charge compared to goods from America, because of the colonial connection in those days. I am not aware of them being actually made in Australia. While the American saws had many different medallions, which makes dating the saws easier, the Canadian made examples had only the one medallion that I have seen so style and etch are the only identifiers on those saws.

On re-reading it looks as though you found a reference suggesting the handle itself was made here. I have not heard that one before and I think it is unlikely. What can happen is that a handle is "Fubar" and a replacement is made looking similar to the original and not using either Apple or Beech, which were the two common timbers used in the Americas. To illustrate how this could come about, compare these three Simonds No.5 saws to the 1919 catalogue.

Simonds No.5 FRG handles.JPGSimonds No.5 FRG handle.JPG

Simonds No.5 from 1919 catalogue.png

The handles are in fact all replacements using, an Australian hardwood, Forest Redgum (E. territicornis). Could be confusing for collectors down the track

Regards
Paul

Paul


There's a comment on woodwork forum that suggests the handles were made in Australia and assembled with imported hardware, https://www.woodworkforums.com/archi.../t-122166.html>


Also the disston institute suggests the the Canada plant existed for 1910 to 1950s, while not a very exact date give vague idea when it came from.
Plus: the confused collectors of of the future will be delighted with those saws, they look fantastic.


Ian, 17 minutes is not a momental amount of time to saw. Hand resawed some timbers that took well over hour, but that decided for me that I was going to have to obtain a pretty decent carbide bladed bandsaw, with deep blade. Pretty versatile support.

Martin

Thanks for the link. I stand corrected as RayG is certainly a reputable commentator:
"
RayG

"9th August 2010, 10:32 PM

Hi Kenny,

Henry Disston set up a saw making business in Sydney prior to WW2, they were subsequently bought out by HK Porter, and continued up until 1978 when they were bought out by Sandvik, which closed the Sydney factory.

One of the reasons for setting up in Australia was the favourable import duties that applied to trade between commonwealth countries, that meant that Disston in Canada could ship saw blades into Australia at reduced import duties, and then ship out to other Commonwealth countries like New Zealand etc..

A lot of Disston Saws with Canadian medallions were actually made in Sydney. The saw plates and other hardware from Canada and handles made in Australia, and assembled in Australia.

Peter Evans (HeavensAbove on this forum) has a HK Porter Disston Catalogue which is downloadable on-line from Library - Sharpening & Care of Tools (Toolemera Press)

I'm not aware of any other saw makers, Spear & Jackson is an interesting possibility, but I suspect that despite the Sydney label it would be more than likely made in Sheffield.

There are other branded saws, that would have been distributed by Hardware retailers, and quite possibly other retailers/distributors brands that were bought in with customer badging.

Interesting question... worth a bit more research.

Regards
Ray"

Regards
Paul