Thread: Berg Chisel

Can't really help. But I'm in interested in hearing the answers to your questions too.

Bergs are everywhere at markets. Cheap.

I have heard that the quality of berg chisels degraded at one point...what point that is, I'm not sure. Think the size of the shark symbol got bigger ( or smaller ? don't remember)......

I believe the chisels you have there are Bergs.

Yes, the quality of these chisels is excellent, and the socket ones are the most sought after. They cost more to make, as well. I have both socket and tang in Bergs and notice no difference - but then again, I have never wailed on them with a mallet. Mine are for paring only.

Jake - if you are finding Bergs everywhere at the markets and they're cheap, then do the smart thing and stock up! Or else make some money and flog them on eBay. People pay a fortune for old Bergs because they were great chisels.

Mind you, the steel in plenty of older chisels, inc Aussie Titans, is probably every bit as good. But Bergs seem to have almost reached cult status, and so they normally sell for quite high prices.

Their bevel-edge chisels make lovely paring chisels are they are thin, and the edges are not all chunky and thick like many so-called 'bevel-edge chisels'.

Cheers,
GW

Originally Posted by Green Woodchips

Jake - if you are finding Bergs everywhere at the markets and they're cheap, then do the smart thing and stock up! Or else make some money and flog them on eBay. People pay a fortune for old Bergs because they were great chisels.

No doubt your right. I don't follow chisels on ebay at all.

Just find that surprising. Most tool stalls I go to have them floating about going cheap.

Originally Posted by apricotripper

Just find that surprising. Most tool stalls I go to have them floating about going cheap.

Bergs are nice. I picked up three at a tool meet a while ago and paid $14 for them. I nearly dropped my shorts and danced the boogaloo then and there. The Bergs have very good steel in them.

Sooo, where are your tool stalls Jake? Hmmm...?

Originally Posted by Groggy

Bergs are nice. I picked up three at a tool meet a while ago and paid $14 for them. I nearly dropped my shorts and danced the boogaloo then and there. The Bergs have very good steel in them.

Sooo, where are your tool stalls Jake? Hmmm...?

The Karakin markets.

Hell TJ.... those bergs look prety damn minty..... and a bit obscure.

Give em a bit of a rubidy dub with some wax and put em up on ebay.........I wouldnt be surprised if you got $200 for the three.

That would buy you a bucket of titans or cheaper bergs.

cheers

Is it fair to assume this beaver is as good as the shark from Berg and just a rebadging??

Yes.

Any opinions on Bergs and this above appreciated.

Forget them. Total crap. A waste of energy. Yellow handled Stanleys are better.

When did they stop making Bergs?

Last Friday afternoon.

Is there much difference between the socket chisel and the spigot chisel for use?

In theory, the socketed chisels should be more durable. In practice, if you intend to wail on a Berg chisel with a hammer you will be better off with a different type of chisel - something more heavy duty. These Bergs are light-duty and designed for paring.

I have collected the tanged version ("spigot:, indeed!!)

What constitutes a parring chisel?

A paring chisel usually has a long blade and is thin (to the point of being slightly flexy). In my book, a paring chisel should be pushed, not struck. I have always questioned the choice of handles that Berg used for this reason. The hoops indicate that they are designed to be struck. Plus their shortness (along with a long blade) is not great for control - a short handle is best with a short blade (NOTE - this is MY preference, not a universal rule).

Here are my re-handled Bergs:



Fore reference, note the Japanese paring chisel on the left - the one without a hoop - for the length of its handle.



Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Forget them. Total crap. A waste of energy. Yellow handled Stanleys are better.

Have you had a bad experience with one Derek ?

Have you had a bad experience with one Derek ?

Jake

As with all used edge tools, especially chisels, you are at the mercy of who ever came before you. How much did the previous owner(s) know about grinding? Did they abuse the steel until it lost its hardness? Fortunately, there are not many chisels I have found that are poor at edge holding, and those I have re-hardened.

My main concern is in regard to what cannot be undone without a lot of effort, and this is largely finding dubbed sides, since these result in a rounded blade back. This is more frequent than I like. Berg chisels are quite thin so there is less steel that may be removed. Plus, even the use of sandpaper (when flattening) will heat up the steel and can affect the temper.

Incidentally, I grind the bevels of my Bergs at 20 degrees, which really tests their steel. They tend to hold up well in hardwoods like Jarrah, but as I mentioned I only push them and take thin shavings. If I need to pound on a chisel I use the Japanese ones (30 degree bevel).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hmm.... I seem to think we only saw the lighter bergs here.... There are heaps of bevel edged bergs arround to be had.
Socketed or any of the heavier ones don't seem to pe plentifull at all.
So I seem to think bergs got the rep for being the paring chisel of choice as there were plenty of other stuff arround for the heavier work.
There was a batch of heavy bergs went up on ebay a few months ago... very minty and fetched a very good price.

As for handles......I am disapointed at lots of handles I see on european and american chisels....... they all seem to be relativly soft light timbers in comparison to what I would prefer....... BUT.... If you are only bashing them with similar soft, light timbers and the material you are cutting is simialar.... thats probaly not a problem.

With our hardwoods however.....you need a harder handle and a harder mallet to get anywhere.

I have a box full of mashed handles...I don't believe all of them have been mashed by metal hammers either...... a metal hammer leaves that tell tale shinny compacted wound.

I'm very fond of spotted gum...... but there are lots of antipodean timbers that make better handles and malets that euro ash in my opinion.

The old titans had a rep of being able to stand a serious wailing from a metal hammer..... and many of them show obvious signs of this.
When the handle is shorter and the steel band has been driven down the but of the chissel like a scone cutter you can bet it was the work of a metal hammer

Lets keep away from blasphemous talk of plastic ( oh no I've said it) handles or we'll have Ian W down on us with a lump of rosewood.

Oh BTW there were the red handles bergs( but we wont talk about those either)

cheers

I bought a set of titans for impact chiselling both the firmer and the bevelled back chisels and planned to use the Bergs for parring or more a gentle nudge if required.

So it seems the flangey thing (socket) really isn't necessary and really I should have gone more for the spigot (tang) type of chisel.

Derek is it likely that even if these chisels have the socket they are still really designed for parring?

I prefer the look of the socket over the tang but must admit a nice redwood with a brass ring is attractive.

Originally Posted by soundman

Hell TJ.... those bergs look prety damn minty..... and a bit obscure.

Give em a bit of a rubidy dub with some wax and put em up on ebay.........I wouldnt be surprised if you got $200 for the three.

That would buy you a bucket of titans or cheaper bergs.

cheers

I have only just bought these on ebay. Got the chisels as second chance option for about $95 AUD plus $30 USD freight. Got them from a Canadian guy selling a Rogers shooting board plane at the moment.

I also recently got 7 nice titans for $85 - very happy with them too

This is the way I look at it, others may have a different viewpoint.

I use all the chisel (and tools) I own. None sit on a shelf. Still, one must add a premium to the cost of a tool (in this case a chisel) if they have "collector" appeal. As in all things collectable, value goes up with condition - the more it approaches the original state, the greater the value/cost.

Chisels such as Bergs are prized because they are excellent quality - superior steel, design and overall build - and because most modern chisels do not compare at the price. The question is, "how does one place a value on them"? This is what I say to myself...

If I were to purchase a new chisel, the quality I would be looking for would be represented by a Lie Nielson bench chisel or a decent make Japanese paring chisel (all about $75 each).

For reference, I recently bought a set of Blue Spruce dovetail chisels (well, they were a birthday present from my wife - but I chose them) and these cost about $300 (AUD) for a set of 4 (1/8" - 1/2"). I have a 3/4" arriving soon. I also recently bought several NOS Koyamaichi nomi, which can sell for around $150-300 each (but I paid a fraction of that).

So figure that a NEW Berg should cost around $75 (if you could get one!). Therefore a mint example on eBay is that price PLUS the collector premium.

Slide down the scale for used-and-abused versions on eBay. You still need to factor in the collector appeal. Still, a very decent (full length, decent handle) example is well worth $50, while an average example should go for $25 - 30.

At the moment I am toying with the idea of selling my set of 4 Bergs that I re-handled for dovetails (1/8", 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" on Jarrah) as I now have the Blue Spruce set (as well as duplicates as parers in the cabinet). I try not to keep duplicates of the same tool. How do you react to a price of $250?! I say this not because I plan to sell them, but to make you aware of the price/aura attached to Berg chisels. You can buy a lot of other chisels for that money.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Be quite honest, as (umm) yucky plastic handles feel to hold....their just brilliant arn't they....especially with a steel top there where the hammer hits. Never wear out. I've got a 1/4" stanley mortise chisel I've could not have belted any harder over the years...... still fine.

So, IMO, maybe a good hard blade with a shock resistant plastic handle is probably the most 'practical' chisel to find. Which brand resembles that do you think ?

Still a bit confused why these bergs are priced so high. I don't see the importance , I suppose, in owning a 'mint' sort of condition chisel, over, the same kind, worn yet still intact, for say $2-3 from the markets. Often the only difference is just a little light rust, grime, and bleeched looking handle.

See a berg every fortnight at the markets. Rarely are they not useable. See a lot of the 3/4" ones about.

I have come accross a couple of Bergs with soft steel. Found them easily rehardened.....well at least near the tip......just put the tip under the map gas until red, then dip in oil etc.....hardens the bugger right up. Quick fix.