Thread: what to do with these bergs (beginner)

Originally Posted by KyleH

Thanks for all your input guys I really appreciate it.



Hmmm would this grinder be adequate for grinding chisels? or would it be where I will need a bigger one anyway and spend the extra?

A 6" wheel makes a deeper hollow, which can cause a thin & fragile edge if you are not careful with your grinding angle, but if you take care with your grind angle it's ok. Up until 20 years or so ago, few backyard warriors owned 8" grinders, they were all 6" wheels. An 8" machine in equivalent quality doesn't cost much more & is preferable, if you can hang out for it. I guess Paul is saying that you live with the wheel you get at the budget price, but a soft-bond wheel makes a very worthwhile difference for beginners, and they don't cost all that much, in the scheme of things. If you save your pennies a bit longer, you could spring for one of the Tormek copies like the Sheppach sold by Hare & Forbes, which gives you the double benefit of a large wheel & wet grinding. These machines are very safe, but the trade-off is that they don't rip metal off at the rate a dry grinder does.

Cheers,

Yes - sorry - wasn't clear that my assumption was for getting something to start with now - then upgrading to an 8" later when you now better whether you want a high-speed dry- or lower speed wet-grinder.

My grinding path started with a 5" grinder for some metal work before woodwork arose on the horizon ...

Garage 001 (Large).jpg

Then to a 6" Ryobi that I found at a garage sale ... and down the track from there the cheapo toolrest from carbatec ...

Garage 002 (Large).jpg

Then this year a 3-phase beauty unwanted at a 'farm' auction ...

Garage 003 (Large).jpg

and then the hand-grinder via ebay ... on a drill press table ... and strangely enough all of them cost about the $30 mark

Garage 004 (Large).jpg

All have ordinary sort of wheels. I recall now that I bought a white Alox wheel from Timbacon at some stage, but I had to use the little plastic arbor-filler on the 3-phase shaft and I never got it running without vibration ... I should have another look at that.

Cheers,
Paul

Dammit - sorry - what I originally meant to write was that in our "Quokka" trade-paper, H&F advertised a three-day sale and ...

BG-200 8" grinder - 36/60 grit wheels - $115

Tiger2000 8" wet grinder - stone + leather - $169

I assume they are normally dearer.

Cheers,
Paul

Originally Posted by pmcgee

.....I recall now that I bought a white Alox wheel from Timbacon at some stage, but I had to use the little plastic arbor-filler on the 3-phase shaft and I never got it running without vibration ... I should have another look at that.

Paul, neither the bushes nor the wheel holes are what you would call ultra-precise, so it's pretty well standard to have some eccentricity when you install a new wheel. A bit of work with a diamond dresser should have it running like a top in no time.

That's quite the collection of grinders you've got there! I gave my old 6" away after acquiring an 8" some years ago, then soon wished I'd kept it to run my buffing wheels & other odd jobs. Though goodness knows where I'd fit it in my already crowded space, so p'raps it's better to stick with using them in a chuck in the wood lathe for now. When I win Lotto, I'll get a bigger shed......

Cheers,

they do take up a lot of space (if multiples are wanted for various polishing wheels) , sometimes in my day dreams i think of converting a cheap wood lathe with long axel to hold multiple wheels in the middle, dont know how successful it would be but it sure would save some space!




cheers
chippy

Originally Posted by ch!ppy

they do take up a lot of space (if multiples are wanted for various polishing wheels) , sometimes in my day dreams i think of converting cheap a wood lathe with long axel to hold multiple wheels in the middle, dont know how successful it would be but it sure would save some space!

cheers
chippy

It must work! I think we have seen photos on here ... or else it was just my poking around the net ... of an old-time carving shop with a two- or three-metre long (or more) powered axle with various profiles along its length.

The WA Carvers Guild have a setup with a motor and v-belt connecting to a short separate axle about 20-30cm with 4 profiles on it (I think). Think one would be a flat felt. I'm sure I took a photo of it one day, but I can't find it for the life of me.

Cheers,
Paul

that'd be right Paul, someone stealing my idea before i invented it

same thing happened when i was five years old, i loved weetbix, and when you look at them they flake apart into bits. i asked and was told they made them by rolling a grain a wheat and heating them..so i invented cornflakes, imagine my dismay when we went to the shops and i saw all these cornflake packets on the shelves, they pinched my dam invention , crooks! skippy owes me big time!

Originally Posted by IanW

Paul, neither the bushes nor the wheel holes are what you would call ultra-precise, so it's pretty well standard to have some eccentricity when you install a new wheel. A bit of work with a diamond dresser should have it running like a top in no time.

Cheers,

Kyle, I'm sorry if your thread has been a bit - ok considerably - derailed by grinder talk ... but I think there is a classic lesson here for the 'beginner'.

I got that alox wheel after the 6" grinder. I don't know if I messed up the sizes when I chose the 8" wheel, or I was being optimistic

I installed it on the 6" grinder with the guards off. It worked but it set up an annoying vibration in the flimsy chipboard top I had on that ex-kitchen bench ... and anything that was sitting on it within 5 foot.

I had then - and still now - only a 'dressing stick' of whatever-it-is for dressing the wheel - which has the advantages of being not only inaccurate but also messy - No actually it works fine for me ... but it does create a lot of loose grit.

I know when I got the 8" grinder I transferred the alox wheel to it. The 3-phase grinder was super smooth-running ... until I put the alox on it I'm sure my attempts to 'dress' it at the time did not on average help things much. I took it off and put a 'normal' 6" gray (grey?)wheel on it and left it.

Now say 6 months down the track - courtesy of this thread - I was reminded of it and had another look at the situation. I put it back on the 8" grinder and used the dressing stick with a much steadier hand. I levelled the sides a bit - they were corrugated. I dressed the running face a bit. Still vibration. Then I took the wheel off and put it on a horizontal sander I literally 'picked up' a couple years back and smoothed both sides - then put it back on the grinder and dressed again.
Running smoothly!

Garage 021.jpg
BUT ... I tried using it on a normal stanley-type plane blade and ... it is so SLOW !!
It was like trying to level a table-top with a smoothing plane.
I'm sure that is desirable in some circumstances, but the plain gray wheel works much quicker.
I think it is a 60 grit - so I need to try a 36 grit and see what that is like.

Incidentally ... on the Timbecon website, they say this: "When selecting the grit to use what is most important is whether the wheel is hard or soft - not whether it is fine or coarse. Coarse grits are the softest so for smooth grinding select the coarsest stone. This is contrary to what you may naturally think."
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It occurs to me that I could have just written ... "If at first you don't succeed - give it another burl in six months"

Originally Posted by pmcgee

.......BUT ... I tried using it on a normal stanley-type plane blade and ... it is so SLOW !!
It was like trying to level a table-top with a smoothing plane.
I'm sure that is desirable in some circumstances, but the plain gray wheel works much quicker.
I think it is a 60 grit - so I need to try a 36 grit and see what that is like....

Paul - first off, what grit size is your 'Alox' wheel? In equivalent grit sizes, soft wheels generally cut faster on tool steel than harder bond wheels, because the matrix lets go & constantly presents new cutting edges. They are also far less suceptible to 'glazing'. (The down side is more rapid wear and loss of shape). Your orphan wheel may simply be too fine.

The rule of thumb about coarser wheels giving a 'smoother' grind needs some qualification. When you say coarse grits will remove a lot of metal 'smoothly', I take it you are referring to the process, because the edge will be anything but! Coarser wheels will remove metal more quickly with less heating, all else being equal, & are useful, depending how much work a tool needs. A little & often is usually much more preferable than lots of heavy work at long intervals, but when starting out with a badly damaged 2" firmer chisel, for e.g. you know a lot of metal is going to come off, so I'd be heading for the coarset wheel I have, for the initial grind. You also need to consider how you go about producing the final edge after grinding. Most people go through at least a couple of extra steps after grining, and a coarser edge will require an extra step or two, so it's swings & roundabouts. A 60 grit wheel seems to be the most commonly recommended wheel for general use on woodworking tools, and I wouldn't use anything finer than 80 for 'dry' grinding, but the wheels for 'wet' grinding are a good deal finer. They can be so because there is no risk of heating, and consequently give you a finer edge which requires little further honing, depending on how fussy you are. The trade-off is that they are painfully slow when it comes to bulk metal removal......

And before we get a hot debate on sharpening happening, my comments are NOT meant, in any shape or form, to be a 'how to' on sharpening! I was just mentioning some of the practical considerations of some potential steps. How you choose to get from A (a very dull tool) to B (one fit for intended purpose) is a matter of personal preference, previously done to death & beyond in this and other forums.........

Cheers,

wow now this is getting complicated with what grinding wheel you should use , 8' or 6'. I think Ill just choose one that is under $100 and see how I go or can you guys suggest one that would be good for under $100?

cheers

Originally Posted by ch!ppy

they do take up a lot of space (if multiples are wanted for various polishing wheels) , sometimes in my day dreams i think of converting a cheap wood lathe with long axel to hold multiple wheels in the middle, dont know how successful it would be but it sure would save some space!




cheers
chippy

I think I know where all the old cobblers buffing and grinding stations have gone - I saw one on the auction site a few years ago and it went from 20 to around 800 in the last hour of the auction

I was tempted myself

Neil

As a honing base I got a piece of plate glass, I think about 8mm from a glass shop for $5.
It is about 350mm square with the edges smoothed,as i was talking to the shop owner and while telling him what I wanted the glass for he said how "about this bit"which was sitting on the counter top as a sample.
This I use with wet&dry to finish off my blades.