Thread: Bessey K-body clamps

Although I am not buying any I have been reading these posts with interest.

I think it is great how this snowballed and how LV has been facilitating what started of as one purchase to this "bulk" order. However it should be noted that LV is doing all the work, individual orders, individual billing and shipping and only combining the final shipment to Darryll, who also s/b congratulated for his time and effort.

I wonder if Northwood received individual orders etc same as this "bulk" order would they still do this price? Be interesting to find out so we may look at another product at a later stage.

It is also interesting to compare this with Dean's efforts last year for Brisbane members. http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...t=bessey+clamp


BTW Don today I heard what a woodchuck really is, wouldn't use it to describe my self.


Peter.

Originally Posted by DPB

Hey, you are speaking to a 'Canuck' (or Canadian for those that don't know the slang). I'm proud of what Lee Valley has done in the woodworking market. They have shown the Yanks how to do it. I promote this company to my woodworking buddies all of the time. I shop there via the internet and when I visit family in Vancouver. I have many Lee Valley tools. These tend to be Veritas products, Lee Valley's own brand and manufacturing. Three cheers for what they have done in the market place and three cheers for seizing this opportunity.

Interesting, but I wasn't questioning your motives, in fact, I applaud your rationale and willingness to point out something most of us may have overlooked.

Originally Posted by DPB

You are missing my point, which is, don't get carried away in the hype without checking out the alternatives. If I'm pointing a finger, it's not at the suppliers, it's at our blinded enthusiasm.

To quote myself "DPB, I've read your posts and tend to agree." However, this event occured spontaneously, perhaps following a comment I made about "We'd be better off shipping a container over between us...". There was no sitting down to think, no analysis (other than rudimentary) your quite correct.
My view though, is that if we had paused to assess, then it probably would not have continued to fruition - as it has.

Originally Posted by DPB

And by the way. Warrantees. The local distributor can't be expected to carry the bag for this. If their are problems with the clamps, we will have to send them back to Lee Valley in Canada. Not very likley. I suspect that financial considerations (return freight costs) will mean we are on our own.

Your quite right, we may have to eat our shorts one day - life's a crapshoot. However, my experience with LV here in Oz and while I lived in the US, was that they will do everything they can to keep the customer happy if at all possible.

What we have here though, is an indication of what "could be" for the future. Effectively, this thread created a buyer's "collective". If we recognise this and think about it, the potential is huge. The management of it, or the coordination will be problematic (as I am sure DarrlIF could attest). But think about it, like-minded persons gathering their buying power to target specific goods in bulk - we take the pricing determination decisions away from the middlemen and the internet is an ideal tool to facilitate it.

(looks up)

I've gone off on a ramble, haven't I.

(sigh)

Anyway, I knew you were a Canuckistani (the flags kinda gave you away). My only real point was that this event most likely would not have come off if we had sat down and analysed it to death.

The military have a saying "ready, aim, re-aim, re-aim" is not as effective as "ready, aim, fire, re-aim, fire).

Perhaps next time we can re-aim a little.

cheers.

Have to compare apples with apples guys The clamp kits from Lee Valley include 4 clamps and 4 clamp blocks. The US RRP for the 'B' set as separate items is US$230, Amazon has it listed at US$140 and Rockler at US$150. From Lee Valley US$119.

The clamp blocks aren't available here at all as far as I am aware, and retail at US$25 or so a set.

I applaud guys like Northwood and others starting to stock quality gear and at least trying to keep competitive - BUT....

Northwood sell the Bessey 40" K-Body clamp for A$125.
If I was to buy the same clamps in the US at NORMAL RETAIL and then AIR FREIGHT them in, AND pay GST, I would land them under A$115 each.

If I bought them retail in the US and shipped them over via surface freight (small shipments), I'd pay around A$75 landed inc GST.

Obviously buying any sort of quantity at wholesale prices and shipping in bulk would bring the price down further.

I for one am a little tired of seeing that sort of thing over and over again. I am happy to pay someone a reasonable price for a reasonable product and have no trouble with them making a profit, but someone is taking the pi$$ when pricing is that far out of whack.

By the way. I ordered a router table insert, knobs, t-track etc yesterday from www.woodpeckers.com.au - perhaps I could have saved a few bucks ordering out of the US, but they have decent prices that compare reasonably with importing myself, and I don't mind paying a reasonable price for local service & quick supply.

And no, this is not a shot at Northwood at all - they (in this case at least) are just following a trend in Aussie businesses that I believe is entirely self defeating.

The fact that Rob Lee takes the time to participate here & elsewhere, and that his company consistently delivers excellent customer service is a very good reason in itself to buy from them.

Also consider here that at a guess we've put together an order of roughly 150 clamps - likely extremely difficult for any Aussie supplier to cope with unless they ordered and we waited anyway.

/rant off

I think the real value in this thread may reside in the last 10 or so posts....

Oh goody, a shiit fight has erupted.

This thread stayed on track far too long anyway. Even Rocker and my best attempts to steer it away whilst trying to talk him into getting some clamps failed.

Bloody amazing how when a few people try to get along someone or ones have to try and stuff it up.

Just a point on the "price match" offer from Northwood. I despise price matching, whether it be from Bunnings or other tradesmen in competition with me.
It's lazy, ie: I couldn't be buggerred working out a decent quote, I'll let the opposition do all the work and then just undercut them slightly, knowing that if they can make a profit at that price, I can do okay just under it.

It's insulting to the consumer: Hell, we'll charge what we think we can get away with but if we get caught out we'll drop the price. Isn't dropping the price an admission that the margin is comfortable enough that it can be discounted? In some cases it may be an admission that the operator is desperate for the custom, but if that's the case generally the product/quality/service is at a level below that of others.

Like DanP says:"if Northwood can beat or even match the price of Lee Valley then they should be more competitive in the first place. If they were then they would get the business".

I've bought off LV in the past and will do so again because of the quality of their product and their excellent service. Local suppliers would be well advised to take some cues from how LV operates, especially in regards to monitoring this BB and fixing any problems. I bought a saw worth over $3K from CarbaTec through my local reseller and it wasn't until I threatened to take it back to the reseller and not pay my account that my complaints taken seriously. (Sorry Dean, that's why I never did a review ). If local suppliers don't realise that with the internet, and especially this BB consumers have a lot of alternatives (and possibly a fair bit of buying power if we co operate) they'll go the way of the dodo.

I've seen quite a few businesses in Cairns fail over the years because the owners carried on as they had always done as they were the only game in town. With a phone, a computer and a credit card why would I put up with substandard service?

Anyway, that's enough ranting from me for one post, sorry if I've offended anyone.

Mick

My Dream...............

An Australian based company producing and manufactoring a range of tools on par in quality with Lee Nielson, Veritas and the like. This company would be offering quality service a mixture of competitive pricing and regular specials.

In addition this company strives to deliver prices that make off shore ordering unattractive keeping my hard earn't dollars right here where they belong..........In Australia!!!!!

Always Always Always quality of product and the customer comes first.................My wallet awaits for this to Happen in Australia!!!!! Until then I'll keep going where I get the best service, quality and price for my hard earn't coin.................Sadly at this stage off shore merchants like Lee VAlley wins hands down :confused:

Theres my 2c worth!!

I cant wait to get my Clamps

Hi Mick -

No - you're not missing anything...it's just our wonky date layering on the computer...

Don't repeat this - but we actually set aside a bunch of virtual inventory for the Austrailia order... if you don't buy it all, then someone else gets their clamps earlier than anticipated, and that's never a problem ...

Cheers -

Rob

I'll put in a bit of defence for SOME local retailers - they are at the end of a long chain, and in most cases someone 'up the chain' is making a bigger cut that they are worth. In a lot of cases, there is not enough 'margin' to support a distributor, wholesaler & retailer - a reasonable retail price dictates that there is only one markup after the item crosses the coast.

I have noticed that both MIK and Carbatec sell Lee Valley branded products at what appears to be a considerable markup from what I - or anybody - can buy them for RETAIL, then import them by EXPRESS AIR, not buying at wholesale & shiping surface. I don't think they hold that much LV stock on hand that the interest bill on the overdraft would be eating all the profits either.

As for Bessey clamps, I know of one 'distributor' in Sydney - I don't know whether they are all imported thru' one agency who then parcels them out thru' a wholesale network or if there are multiple independant distributors who sell to retailers - there could well be 2 or 3 'markups' before Northwood even get them in the door. Which is tough for the local retailer trying to make a living on a tiny margin.

I'd better put a sock in it & get off my soapbox now

Originally Posted by doublejay

As I understand this arrangement, Lee Valley aren't discounting for a bulk order. The price they are quoting is available to anyone who wants to buy. All this forum group is doing is amortising the freight etc., over a large order. Our Aussie companies are probably buying their freight a lot more cheaply than this group but still charge significantly more for the local one off purchaser.

They know that the small buyer is sidelined by high freight coast and in my opinion will charge what the market will bear.

Doublejay -

To be fair - these clamps are being sold at a price lower than we've paid for them before... this is a LARGE bulk purchase (we long ago surpassed the total number of Bessey clamps we've sold of all sizes, totalled over the previous five years!).

I don't expect that anyone in Australia can compete with those retail prices. I can't speak to the cost of operating a business in Austrailia, so really don't have much more insight into pricing. I can tell you that the freight on this order is very competitive though... keep in mind it includes truck transport from Ottawa to Montreal, in addition to the Ocean Freight...

At this moment, there are 26 people ordering 1265.3 pounds of goods - and freight to an Austrailian port is less than $500...

Cheers -

Rob

Price matching the Bessey clamps or giving a discount for quantity is one thing - BUT - apart from getting very good clamps for a great price we are also getting the opportunity to buy Lee Valley product and not really have to consider shipping costs too much. Many times I have looked at buying LV and once shipping is added it makes the intended purchase too expensive.

I have ordered some extra things as I am sure others have, but I fully intend to look at their product line again before shipment and possibly order more to take advantage of buying great quality stuff with a very good shipping price.

Cheers

God I'm tempted...... I wonder how long I could play with another four before SWMBO removed my fingers so I couldnt..... hmmm.... another four to go with the two I got through Dean's deal.....

Just do it Wayne. You know you'll never get the opportunity again. I can't wait to get my hands on some decent clamps, until now I've made do with OK ones.

I finally bit the bullet. I'm a bit new to all of this so I've limited myself to one 'B' set of clamps....but, I've left the order open because I've found a whole lot of other stuff that I've put on my wish list.

Thanks again to Darryl and anyone else who has helped bring this together.