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Thread: Saw Blade Etch IDs
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17th July 2015, 08:29 AM #1Senior Member
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Saw Blade Etch IDs
Picked up an old 26" saw at an estate sale today -- warranted superior medallion, thinner diameter sawnuts (not split nuts), and a nib. I can make out a partial etch. There's a circle with what looks like a deer inside it, maybe a mountain scene in the background. I can also make out the capital letters UR at around 11 o'clock above the circle. I'll try to take a couple photos, but it may not turn out well. Also, there was a "5" stamped beneath the handle (had to remove the handle to see it). The saw has 6 PPI and 5 TPI.
I also found a Disston skewback 26", but I can't make out the model. The medallion was missing, but I believe it's an older style etch (wider margins around the Disston etch). It looks like there have been new teeth cut a couple of times, as some of the bottom appears to be missing. I'll put in a couple of photos of it as well.
Cheers,
Dave
IMG_7137.jpgIMG_7142.jpgIMG_7144.jpgIMG_7146.jpgIMG_7153.jpgIMG_7160.jpgIMG_7163.jpgIMG_7165.jpg
IMG_7166.jpgIMG_7167.jpgIMG_7168.jpg
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17th July 2015 08:29 AM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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18th July 2015, 10:45 AM #2SENIOR MEMBER
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Hello Dave,
always good to see and hear of saws being rescued,
are you able to post some photos of the complete saws
front, back and handle?
the etch on the first saw looks very deep, it should not
be too hard to clean up around that one.
the Disston looks to be a lot shallower,
so be slow and gentle with that one.
thank you
Graham.
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19th July 2015, 02:10 AM #3Senior Member
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Etch IDs
I'm on vacation right now, but I'll be back home on Monday. I'll put them back together and take more pics then. I appreciate the help. There's nothing like solving the mystery of an old saw!
Regards,
Dave
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19th July 2015, 04:57 AM #4
I feel your pain on indistinct etches
I think it is going to be one of the Victory saws ... D15 on the Disstonian website.
Maybe not "Victory". That Keystone part of the etch is pre-1928 I believe ...
Cheers,
Paul
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22nd July 2015, 03:45 AM #5Senior Member
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More Etch IDs photos
Here are a few more photos of the entire saws:
Round Deer Etch:
IMG_7175.jpgIMG_7176.jpg
Unknown Disston:
IMG_7172.jpgIMG_7173.jpg
I don't think the handle on the Disston is original because only two of the holes line up.
regards,
Dave
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23rd July 2015, 12:52 AM #6Senior Member
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I was not able to get anything more out of the Disston -- I was afraid I'd lose it all if I kept going. As for the other, I'm 90% sure it reads URAL. I did a search on Ural Hand Saws, but found nothing.
Dave
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23rd July 2015, 08:21 AM #7Senior Member
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I cleaned up the Warranted Superior medallion from the older saw with the nib (not the Disston). I saw a patent date on it and assumed it was the Glover date (Dec 27 1887), but it was an earlier date -- Dec 31 1867:
IMG_7267.jpg IMG_7268.jpg IMG_7269.jpg
I checked the patent date and it is the same date as a split nut patent by E. Washbourne:
http://www.datamp.org/patents/displa...=72766&id=7540
Might these saw nuts and medallion be split nuts that were converted to the later style? The shaft on the bolts have a smaller diameter than "normal" saw nuts.
Regards,
Dave
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24th July 2015, 03:55 AM #8
Ahhhhhhh .... ok ... part mystery solved ... kinda ... plus you've got me drooling a little ...
I was thinking the Disston etch was on the same blade as the more elaborate one.
I've gotcha now.
I love your first saw and handle. Wherever you got it - well done.
It echoes the Disston #12s you can see here ... http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/12page.html
but it is a different make I am sure.
All the saw-makers copied the designs that were around, and the #12 with that distinctive handle was a high-end option.
I don't think necessarily all the blades matched the quality of the #12s ... but that carving and age is super nice to me.
The little "star" half way up the grip says to me it isn't Disston afaik.
I think all the #12s here are Disstons, and mostly later than your saw by about a generation ... https://photos.google.com/album/AF1Q...Q8Kum7sFCtImfv
I think it is going to be one of the less widely known early US makers like eg Wheeler, Madden and Clemson.
Cheers,
Paul
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24th July 2015, 04:31 AM #9
Ok ... this picture comes from a post on RayG's backsaw.net website ...
EM Boynton ... an early and pretty rare US saw maker ...
A clear match I suggest. You have a winner there.
EM Boynton #12.jpg
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24th July 2015, 05:48 AM #10Senior Member
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So you think the medallion and sawnuts are replacements?
Dave
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24th July 2015, 06:34 AM #11
Also from backsaw.net ... Image scanned from "Handsaw Makers of North America" by Erwin L Schaffer [page94]
EMBoynton.jpg
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24th July 2015, 11:02 AM #12SENIOR MEMBER
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Hello Dave,
well you've certainly got a couple of interesting saws there, especially the first one
with its unusual etch and decorative handle.
What type of saw nuts does it have? When you put up the other pictures the nuts
were not present.
Are they domed or like the more regular type of nuts?
Have you been able to clean up the blade yet?
Are you able to measure the blade thickness?
All this info will help to identify it.
Paul has put up some very good suggestions.
With the other Disston saw, if you think the handle is a replacement,
you could try making a template from the saw plate around the handle
area showing the screw holes, and put that up against other Disston saws
to help work out what type it is.
From the shape of the narrow toe of the blade it may be one of the so called
ships point saws, which I think come out in the late 20's.
Keep at it, this is where all fun is.
Graham.
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24th July 2015, 12:26 PM #13Senior Member
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Graham,
The nuts are definitely not flat, there is a slight dome to them. The diameter of the shaft is about 1/8", smaller than the typical 3/16" diameter of the Glover patent nuts. The patent date on the WS medallion reads "PAT. DEC. 31, 1867", which as I mentioned previously, matches up with the patent date of a split nut patent by E. Washbourne. Also, I forgot to mention that the diameter of the heads on one of the sawnuts is slightly smaller than the others -- 1/2" as opposed to 9/16". It's the one farthest away from the medallion, the nut on the left at the top as you look at the side with the medallion. By the way, it looks like the hidden parts of the sawnuts and medallion (the parts inside the handle) are nickel plated -- it's hard to tell from the photos below. Perhaps the plating on the exposed parts has worn away. Does anyone know when nickel plated brass sawnuts and medallions came about?
IMG_7314.jpgIMG_7315.jpgIMG_7318.jpg
I worked a little more on the blade, but could not see a lot more. Although, I'm pretty sure that above the circle are the letters "UR" and then a leaf type design, followed by "AL" and then either an "8" or an "S". There is writing under the circle, but I've not been able to decipher any of it... yet. What do you recommend for cleaning it up a little more? I've been using mineral spirits and fine steel wool (#0).
I removed the handle and measured the blade thickness at the heel on the top (0.039 in, 1.02 mm) and the heel on the bottom (0.035 in, 0.90 mm). Are you asking to see if it's taper ground?
Thanks so much for the help
Regards,
Dave
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24th July 2015, 03:15 PM #14
Ray's website has this timeline ... http://www.backsaw.net/timeline/
The Glover patent was 1887, and EM Boynton are listed as 1869-1887 in HSMoNA.
The one smaller screw is very common - Disston, Atkins, everyone.
Cheers,
Paul
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25th July 2015, 11:29 AM #15SENIOR MEMBER
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Hello Dave,
The saw nuts look like the later regular nuts you find on most saws from say the 1870's onwards.
and not the fancy domed ones that Paul showed with the Boynton saw, which is a very close match
to yours but has a few more fancy details when you compare the two.
It's also interesting that it has the wheat carving on the back side of the handle as well.
Yes taking the blade thickness measurements will help to determine if the blade is taper ground,
which can indicate the amount of work put into it's manufacture and it's quality, and the amount
of set the teeth my require when it is sharped. i.e. more taper = less set.
As far as cleaning goes, well there is a lot of good information about saw cleaning out there already.
I have cleaned up my fair share of old saws and use a combination of methods depending on what
problems the saw has and the level of finish I think it deserves.
You need to determine what level of finish you want to achieve e.g. minimal cleaning that will allow
you to bring it inside, cleaned up to show that the last user cared for his tools, or cleaned up and
ready to use.
Both of your saws show a healthy coat of surface rust, you could try scrapping followed by various
grits of sanding, being careful around the etch. Leave the steel wool for other items.
One piece of advice that I found to be helpful was, regardless of what the item is, if you want to retain
an items true character use the least invasive method that produces the desired results that does not
leave any signs of your cleaning efforts.
Hope this helps.
Graham.
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