Thread: A Block Plane dilemma

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Ah, why is that?

Don't you want to know if it is a True WoodRiver or not?

Take Care and Stay Sharp,
Jim
Jim Davey Planes & Sharpening - Home

It's never crossed my mind that it's not a Woodriver - especially with the shavings it takes. Pac Man looked at it a couple of weeks ago - no question of a knock off came up. If it was a knock off there'd be other giveaways like the quality of the exterior body grinding (which is excellent) etc. I very much doubt that a knock off would take shavings like this thing did out of the box - no blade honing or anything else.

As I've said before, I have no doubt that it's a second because of the twisted bed, and that would explain why the vendor offered 10% off an already low price without even being asked.

Would I buy any more from this guy or suggest other people to? Not on your life - I probably was just lucky that this second was able to be worked around quite successfully - that may well not be the case with others, and so not worth the risk at all.

In any case - even if it was a knock off - that knowledge wouldn't change the quality of the job it does - which is very good. In fact this particular plane leaves the best timber surface of any of the planes I have (about 6 pre-war Stanleys with after market blades, and 4 HNTs). The improvement in finish was very noticable on Douglas Fir.

FF at the GTG there was no comparison of the two planes, we only looked at the one I had and confirmed that the mouth on it was square. I have purchased other plane makers legitimate factory seconds so the question of the plane you purchased being a knock off was not on my mind, particularly when it was branded and in the photos does look strikingly similar to the one I have.

Using a search engine it is reasonably easy to find a website o/s that sells woodworking tools (not just planes) . It would look as if these may not be the real deal. Buyer beware.

Originally Posted by Pac man

Using a search engine it is reasonably easy to find a website o/s that sells woodworking tools (not just planes) . It would look as if these may not be the real deal. Buyer beware.

I was not aware of any WoodRiver Distributors in China but I hear that there is one licensed to sell WR Planes in China and Taiwan.

Jim Davey

Originally Posted by JimDavey

Hi, can you measure the Block Plane please.
Is it about:
160mm long
45mm wide with
40mm wide blade
???
Thank you,
Jim

Jim, from your website (re Woodriver LA Block plane):
50mm / 2"Wide x 175mm / 7"Long

Just measured mine: 177 x 50.8mm, blade 40mm wide.

There have been a couple of suggestions to regrind the body to make it match the bed orientation. This will not work - the adjustable mouth will still be at the same orientation. This would only result in the front of the mouth still not being parallel to the blade edge (there would be no change in the relationship). To correct the plane the only thing that would work is to regrind or file the bed to the correct orientation, however this is not necessary as the plane delivers the goods (and my filing skills are definitely not up to it).

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

For those who think that Woodcraft may have been aggrieved I suggest that you read this thread on talkFestool. You may have a different opinion after reading it. Personally, I find it hard to see how Woodcraft would be able to claim the high moral ground if they are concerned about these planes being sold directly out of China. That would bring pots and kettles to mind.

A small quote from it:
"Just as a quick recap, Woodcraft brought out the WoodRiver planes which looked very closely identical to the Lie-Nielsen planes of which they are also a distributor. Tom Begnal, an Associate Editor for Fine Woodworking magazine, did a very thorough comparison and found that down to the smallest components they were copies of the Lie-Nielsen planes. Not copies of the Stanley Bedrock or Bailey but Lie-Nielsen."

Brett

I'm aware that when first introduced to the US market the WoodRiver planes were deemed to be direct copies of Tom Lie Nielsen's planes, I recall reading the considerable debate and angst that ensured on various WW forums at the time.
There is also a youtube of Chris Schwarz demonstrating, inadvertently, that the Chinese "copies" have a similar resistance to damage as exhibited by LN planes.

I don't know how identical current planes branded "WoodRiver" or "Quansheng" are to the equivalent tools from Lie Nielsen and personally don't particularly care.

and like you I don't think Woodcraft has a right to be particularly agrieved if another manufacturer copied their copy. However, I believe Woodcraft have a right to be agrieved if the copy contains the "WoodRiver" brand name or is product rejected by Woodcraft's QC department as not of the standard expected for the brand name is then sold by a third party as the genuine article -- i.e with the brand name.
In Australia I believe that such behaviour is called "passing off" -- not that I'm suggesting that you have been "passing off" your particular block plane.

Originally Posted by ian

However, I believe Woodcraft have a right to be agrieved if the copy contains the "WoodRiver" brand name or is product rejected by Woodcraft's QC department as not of the standard expected for the brand name is then sold by a third party as the genuine article -- i.e with the brand name.

Agreed, that is a different scenario altogether - it's fake Rolex country. don't know if the "seconds" bit is mentioned on the website (my Mandarin isn't what it used to be), but i sincerely doubt it. I compare the dimensions of the LN and Woodriver Block planes today, and the LNs are significantly smaller. I think I may have read that WR changed (at least some of) the designs. Woodcraft no longer stock LN, but not sure when that happened or who dropped whom.

Perhaps I should make it clear that I'm not particularly unhappy with this plane (now) - it's just a bit of an ugly child, is all.

Copying a copy? Who would want to copy a copy?!

Brett, do I understand (without going through the entire thread) that the bed of the block plane is skewed slightly? That is, it is steep on one side than the other, thereby causing the blade to cut a tad more deeply on the one side?

If so, this can be fixed with some careful filing of the bed. I have done this very successfully with just a file and a bit of sandpaper.

Method: strip the plane down until you have the bed clear. Coat the surface with either engineers blue or a waterproof texta. Use a medium coarse wide file to remove the iron where it is too high. Extend this across the bed. Do not do too much at once. Flatten the bed with 120 grit glued to a length of hardwood that fits tightly between the inside walls. Recoat the bed with texta to do this. Then reassemble and check how the blade is cutting. If it is still off, start again. Do it slowly rather than too fast.

BU planes are very difficult to machine perfectly, and it is more common than you realise to get one that is a snitch off.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks Derek.