Thread: Bow saw blades

Dieiter Schmid in Germany is very reliable. You can trust his product descriptions.
Gramercy Tools Bow Saw | FINE TOOLS

I was wondering why you busted your blades, taz, but when I saw the size of them I understand how they might be a bit fragile! IMO, 3mm blades are fine for tight curves, but I find them hard to steer smoothly for sweeping curves like for a cabriolet leg, & obviously not as robust as they might be. I would use a wider blade for a job like that.

I admit it's wanton luxury, but I have two bowsaws, a 10 inch, which has a 3mm wide blade and the one I use almost daily for all sorts of jobs, and a 12 inch that has an 8mm wide blade & gets used much less often, but it would be the one I'd reach for to cut a cabriolet leg (if I wasn't being lazy & cutting them on the bandsaw! )

Size cf.jpg

For reasons I don't understand, bowsaws have become an endangered species (I lerve my bowsaws!). You used to be able to buy 10 inch & 12 inch blades fairly readily up 'til about 30 years ago, but they've gradually dwindled to the point where the Grammercys are about the only game in town, & their choice of tpi & widths are very limited! When I found I wasn't able to buy blades for my 10 inch saw any more I decided to have a crack at making some. It turned out to be easier than I expected (but probably a good challenge for a novice) and what's more, my blades turned out to be much better than the things I'd bought.

So give some consideration to rolling your own blades. A worn-out bandsaw blade can be a good source of raw material. Something about 0.020" thick is ideal & a fairly typical thickness for blades for small-medium bandsaws. I form the teeth before cutting to size so I can hold it more easily in my saw vise, then clamp it between two bits of steel & slice off the width required with a 1mm cutoff wheel in the angle grinder. Setting such narrow blades takes some care & concentration, but my Eclipse set handles the job ok. If you put a bit more set on them than you'd put on an equivalent tpi backsaw, it allows you to cut tighter circles...

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

I was wondering why you busted your blades, taz, but when I saw the size of them I understand how they might be a bit fragile! IMO, 3mm blades are fine for tight curves, but I find them hard to steer smoothly for sweeping curves like for a cabriolet leg, & obviously not as robust as they might be. I would use a wider blade for a job like that.

I admit it's wanton luxury, but I have two bowsaws, a 10 inch, which has a 3mm wide blade and the one I use almost daily for all sorts of jobs, and a 12 inch that has an 8mm wide blade & gets used much less often, but it would be the one I'd reach for to cut a cabriolet leg (if I wasn't being lazy & cutting them on the bandsaw! )

Size cf.jpg

For reasons I don't understand, bowsaws have become an endangered species (I lerve my bowsaws!). You used to be able to buy 10 inch & 12 inch blades fairly readily up 'til about 30 years ago, but they've gradually dwindled to the point where the Grammercys are about the only game in town, & their choice of tpi & widths are very limited! When I found I wasn't able to buy blades for my 10 inch saw any more I decided to have a crack at making some. It turned out to be easier than I expected (but probably a good challenge for a novice) and what's more, my blades turned out to be much better than the things I'd bought.

So give some consideration to rolling your own blades. A worn-out bandsaw blade can be a good source of raw material. Something about 0.020" thick is ideal & a fairly typical thickness for blades for small-medium bandsaws. I form the teeth before cutting to size so I can hold it more easily in my saw vise, then clamp it between two bits of steel & slice off the width required with a 1mm cutoff wheel in the angle grinder. Setting such narrow blades takes some care & concentration, but my Eclipse set handles the job ok. If you put a bit more set on them than you'd put on an equivalent tpi backsaw, it allows you to cut tighter circles...

Cheers,

Thanks Ian,

While i'd love to blame the tool, I'm sure I'm 100% to blame. I think the blade binded in the cut and i foolishly thought i could restart it, not thinking about how delicate the blade is. Ho hum, you live and learn.

I'll order a few Gramercy blades from Dieter and if my technique continues to fail then I'll use it as an excuse for a 2nd larger bowsaw.

Out of interest, as the Gramercy blades are held in by a pin, how do you attach this on you bandsaw cutoff? Do you instead mount your blades differently ? Lack of a bandsaw in my garage (space limitation....) makes this a less likely path to take but I'll rule nothing out.

Regards,

Adam

Originally Posted by taz01

... Out of interest, as the Gramercy blades are held in by a pin, how do you attach this on you bandsaw cutoff? Do you instead mount your blades differently ?....

No different in principle, Adam, the 10" & 12" bowsaws use a "loose" pin. aka a nail. The blade goes into a slot in the brass holders which are drilled to take a small nail. I put a bit of a bend in the nail to stop it faling out when the tension is released before I put the saw away: Blade retainer.jpg

But you could simply pop a nail through a hole in the blade, then slip that into the slot on your Grammercy holders.

Having a fixed pin is very convenient, but it's quite possible to use use a loose pin. I've actually got another, smaller bowsaw that I made to take coping saw blades. I made the blade holders for it like the Grammercy ends: Handle fitted.jpg Coping blade.jpg

But he coping saw blades generally available are pretty ordinary things, they are dull out of the packet & I can't stand using them before I sharpen them - makes a world of difference, but they are soft as butter & soon dull again. They are also quite thick - they won't fit in the kerf from my favourite dovetail saw (0.015" plate), so I've made a couple of blades for it. I intended to silver-solder pins in the ends to make them more convenient, but just never got the round tuit. I just leave a bit of tension on the cord after use, which holds everything in place well enough, so I doubt I'll ever bother fixing the pins. Incidentally, I made the blade from 1095 shim stock and it lasts about 5 times longer between sharpenings than the shop-bought blades.

Cheers,

Thanks again Ian,

That sounds do-able. What blade width and pitches would you recommend? A quick google says carbatec stock some 6tpi blades in both 10mm and 13mm widths.

Would the standard set on a bandsaw blade work on a bow saw or would this always be refining? Would any parts of the blade geometry need changing for this to be a functional approach? I don't currently have an eclipse / saw files etc...

Adam, there have been a few threads on using bandsaw blades for hand-saws & the general consensus is that since most bandsaw blades have positive rake, they are too aggressive to use in a general-purpose bowsaw as-is. And because the teeth are pretty-much universally impulse-hardened nowadays, they aren't amenable to easy re-configuration. So I used the old blades as a source of material, cut off the existing teeth & made new ones.

For cutting out cabriole legs, I am assuming you are working with stock somewhere in the vicinity of 60-100mm square, so I'd be using a blade that has around 10-12tpi to give me a good compromise between speed & smoothness of cut.

I'd like to see more people re-discover the usefulness of the bowsaw, they are an essential item for anyone seriously interested in hand-tool methods, and such a simple tool to make (you can use cut-down bolts for the blade holders like I did for my first attempt many decades ago, they do the job, you don't need fancy bits of turned brass for it to work well). What is the distance between the pins on the Grammercy blades? Out of curiosity, & if you are interested, I'll make a blade 8-10mm wide & 10tpi for you for the cost of postage & half the file that it will use up. You can use that as a reference to see if you find it any better than the blades you've been using & maybe try making other blades with different pitches for different jobs. I'll do a step-by-step pictorial as I make it so you & others can use that as a reference for rolling your own in future.

Cheers,

Looking forward to your description. A bow saw is also on my long list of tools to make ;-)

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by IanW

Adam, there have been a few threads on using bandsaw blades for hand-saws & the general consensus is that since most bandsaw blades have positive rake, they are too aggressive to use in a general-purpose bowsaw as-is. And because the teeth are pretty-much universally impulse-hardened nowadays, they aren't amenable to easy re-configuration. So I used the old blades as a source of material, cut off the existing teeth & made new ones. ...

Mate is currently experimenting with a "butchers" band saw blade in a bow saw. He says tooth profile is like a "tennon saw". Too early to comment on effectiveness.

Keep us posted, Graeme .. Can't remember what tpi the meat bandsaw blades were we used, but the blades for the hand-operated variety (the ones like like an overgrown hacksaw) were 10 tp (I have one in a drawer that I use as a template), & you're right, they have either zero or negative rake. You might be onto an inexhaustible supply of bowsaw blades at last...

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Adam, there have been a few threads on using bandsaw blades for hand-saws & the general consensus is that since most bandsaw blades have positive rake, they are too aggressive to use in a general-purpose bowsaw as-is. And because the teeth are pretty-much universally impulse-hardened nowadays, they aren't amenable to easy re-configuration. So I used the old blades as a source of material, cut off the existing teeth & made new ones.

For cutting out cabriole legs, I am assuming you are working with stock somewhere in the vicinity of 60-100mm square, so I'd be using a blade that has around 10-12tpi to give me a good compromise between speed & smoothness of cut.

I'd like to see more people re-discover the usefulness of the bowsaw, they are an essential item for anyone seriously interested in hand-tool methods, and such a simple tool to make (you can use cut-down bolts for the blade holders like I did for my first attempt many decades ago, they do the job, you don't need fancy bits of turned brass for it to work well). What is the distance between the pins on the Grammercy blades? Out of curiosity, & if you are interested, I'll make a blade 8-10mm wide & 10tpi for you for the cost of postage & half the file that it will use up. You can use that as a reference to see if you find it any better than the blades you've been using & maybe try making other blades with different pitches for different jobs. I'll do a step-by-step pictorial as I make it so you & others can use that as a reference for rolling your own in future.

Cheers,

Hi ian,

That is an very generous offer and i am definitely interested.

The Gramercy blades are 305mm between pins, which are 1.2mm in diameter. The depth of the 10 tpi blades is only 3mm.

Best regards,

Adam

Originally Posted by Cklett

Looking forward to your description. A bow saw is also on my long list of tools to make ;-)

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Making the saw itself is pretty easy. On the toolsforworkingwood site he's put some free plans you can download.

Originally Posted by taz01

...The Gramercy blades are 305mm between pins, which are 1.2mm in diameter. The depth of the 10 tpi blades is only 3mm....

Ok, that's all I need. I am never sure when they say "xmm blades" if they mean the overall length, the distance between pins or pin holes, or the actual cutting length. I'm not sure I can make an exact 1.2mm (1/16") pin hole, but it'll be close enough for a prototype, we can do further product development once we get a satisfactory "proof of concept" result...

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

I'm not sure I can make an exact 1.2mm (1/16") pin hole

Given that nitpicking is one of my core competencies, I need to point out that 1/16” is closer to 1.6mm. 1.2mm is roughly 3/64”.

Originally Posted by Colin62

Given that nitpicking is one of my core competencies, I need to point out that 1/16” is closer to 1.6mm. 1.2mm is roughly 3/64”.

Yeah, you're absolutely right, of course, Colin. I'm well aware of all of the simple conversions from Imperial to metric, I do that one often, but obviously had a brain-fade, so thankyou for the correction....