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Thread: Brace Fanatics

  1. #121
    Boringgeoff is offline Try not to be late, but never be early.
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    I contacted Mayo Hardware and got a reply from a customer service representative almost straight away, informing me that I had mistakenly contacted the wrong company. I've gone back and asked the rep' to perhaps look a little deeper and see if there is a family member at the company who may have the time or interest to address the question.
    So far I haven't heard back.

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  3. #122
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    You can see some hot brace action in my previous YouTube video https://youtu.be/wpzf2cIQTkg at around the 5 minutes mark. Bit embarrassed about the title since there are great saw makers on here!

  4. #123
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    Not too shabby for your first-ever saw restoration.

    You make me feel guilty, doing it all with hand tools - I confess to mostly using a scroll-saw for cutting out, & a drill-press for setting the bolts & nuts. Having a couple of 'handle-makers' rasps is a huge help with the inside of the handle, but they would be rather expensive luxuries for someone who only wants to do the occasional restoration. I didn't see what you used to make the counter-sinks, but a I've found Forstner bits the most reliable tools for neatness & getting the depth right.

    What surprised me most was how well that blade cleaned up - when you first picked it up, I thought it was beyond hope! You've given that saw a whole new life - goodonya.....

    Cheers,
    IW

  5. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    Not too shabby for your first-ever saw restoration.

    You make me feel guilty, doing it all with hand tools - I confess to mostly using a scroll-saw for cutting out, & a drill-press for setting the bolts & nuts. Having a couple of 'handle-makers' rasps is a huge help with the inside of the handle, but they would be rather expensive luxuries for someone who only wants to do the occasional restoration. I didn't see what you used to make the counter-sinks, but a I've found Forstner bits the most reliable tools for neatness & getting the depth right.

    What surprised me most was how well that blade cleaned up - when you first picked it up, I thought it was beyond hope! You've given that saw a whole new life - goodonya.....

    Cheers,
    Thanks Ian, for the counter sinks I used a bit in a brace for the medallion and just a Brad point for the nuts. They definetly could have been done neater. I will try forstner bits next time.
    Mike

  6. #125
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    Mike

    Congratulations on doing it all by hand: No easy job, but very traditional. One day I must learn how to do that video thing, but thank you for linking. Of course a lot depends on how much of this type of thing you plan to do, but once started it is a little bit drug like.

    Just a couple of easy things: You probably need a wider screwdriver for undoing the saw screws as the brass tends to damage rather easily if it is the slightest bit tight. Most commercial drivers are too narrow. You can fashion something fairly easily out of an old piece of flat file or one of those rubbish quality chisels can be reshaped and used. I have two different sizes as the saw screws on hand saws are larger. It helps to have the blade nearly the width of the saw screw.

    The female screws are usually easy to get off, but the male half as you found out can be more difficult. I just use an appropriate size nail the reverse way around and tap gently from the reverse side until the screw releases. In your case you were replacing the handle so damage was not an issue. I have glued a few different size nails into handles but it is not necessary either to have a handle or different sizes. I only ever use the one size! The handles prevents the nail getting lost. A suitable sized pin punch would also do the trick.

    P1040835 (Medium).JPG

    It is always going to be tricky drilling super clean holes for the saw screws and the medallion with hand powered tools. Forstner bits are excellent, but I also use brad point bits and spade bits. Spade bits are quite easy to modify if the size is just too large. I have at least a couple modified in this way. It is advisable to identify that they are no longer the size stated in the metal. I use a paint marker.

    Of course you are going to have to sell your soul to the devil and use an electric drill (a drill press is much better again).

    I don't think you mentioned the timber, which looks to be Silky Oak, and that is easy to work if a little bit on the cheesy side. If you had used a harder species you might have struggled with the sanding operations. That would be where good rasps come into their own, but they are expensive. Also I cut off the bulk of the waste for the rounding with either a turning bow saw or a coping saw.

    I also like to remove the back but that is another step and an added complication.

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  7. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by code4pay View Post
    ..... I will try forstner bits next time....
    Mike, Forstners are a bit of a challenge in hand braces because it takes a fair bit of down-pressure to make them cut, especially in harder woods. But one of our members (sorry, can't remember who it was so can't give them due acknowledgement) put up a very useful tip a while back; if you drill a small pilot hole for the point, the cutters will bite more easily & the bit will cut with far less pressure. I tried it myself & it certainly makes things easier......

    Cheers,
    IW

  8. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    Mike

    Congratulations on doing it all by hand: No easy job, but very traditional. One day I must learn how to do that video thing, but thank you for linking. Of course a lot depends on how much of this type of thing you plan to do, but once started it is a little bit drug like.

    Just a couple of easy things: You probably need a wider screwdriver for undoing the saw screws as the brass tends to damage rather easily if it is the slightest bit tight. Most commercial drivers are too narrow. You can fashion something fairly easily out of an old piece of flat file or one of those rubbish quality chisels can be reshaped and used. I have two different sizes as the saw screws on hand saws are larger. It helps to have the blade nearly the width of the saw screw.

    The female screws are usually easy to get off, but the male half as you found out can be more difficult. I just use an appropriate size nail the reverse way around and tap gently from the reverse side until the screw releases. In your case you were replacing the handle so damage was not an issue. I have glued a few different size nails into handles but it is not necessary either to have a handle or different sizes. I only ever use the one size! The handles prevents the nail getting lost. A suitable sized pin punch would also do the trick.

    P1040835 (Medium).JPG

    It is always going to be tricky drilling super clean holes for the saw screws and the medallion with hand powered tools. Forstner bits are excellent, but I also use brad point bits and spade bits. Spade bits are quite easy to modify if the size is just too large. I have at least a couple modified in this way. It is advisable to identify that they are no longer the size stated in the metal. I use a paint marker.

    Of course you are going to have to sell your soul to the devil and use an electric drill (a drill press is much better again).

    I don't think you mentioned the timber, which looks to be Silky Oak, and that is easy to work if a little bit on the cheesy side. If you had used a harder species you might have struggled with the sanding operations. That would be where good rasps come into their own, but they are expensive. Also I cut off the bulk of the waste for the rounding with either a turning bow saw or a coping saw.

    I also like to remove the back but that is another step and an added complication.

    Regards
    Paul
    Thanks Paul, I will make those drivers they will be handy that driver did mess it up.

    It is silky oak, I did use a rasp, that bit just ended up on the cutting room floor. I purchased one of those fancy French hand stitched ones a couple of years ago for my birthday present. It is the most expensive hand tool I own which seems pretty over the top but it is nice!

    Yes please try out the video thing it adds another dimension to what you do and would be great for people like myself to learn from yourself. You can use a smartphone with great results.
    Thanks
    Mike

  9. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    Mike, Forstners are a bit of a challenge in hand braces because it takes a fair bit of down-pressure to make them cut, especially in harder woods. But one of our members (sorry, can't remember who it was so can't give them due acknowledgement) put up a very useful tip a while back; if you drill a small pilot hole for the point, the cutters will bite more easily & the bit will cut with far less pressure. I tried it myself & it certainly makes things easier......

    Cheers,
    That's a great tip, I did order one of these https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...6&share_type=t

    1 1/4" Forstner bits for hand brace

    I will be interested to see how it works when it arrives.

  10. #129
    Boringgeoff is offline Try not to be late, but never be early.
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    The original Forstner bit (22 Sept' 1874 US Patent 155148) didn't have a centre point and as far as I know they are still being made like that. The attached photo shows both styles, though the photo quality isn't as good as I would have liked.
    As well as Ians observations I also find that unless you are dead square the original bit wants to wander off when used in a brace which is why the centre point was introduced (I don't know when).

    I haven't heard back from my second attempt at contacting Mayo Hardware, they're either thinking about it or the request's in the bin.
    Cheers,
    Geoff.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  11. #130
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    My Forstner bit came in today, and Mine does have a center point although a very small one.
    IMG_20190215_124330128_HDR.jpg

    I gave it a quick sharpen and tried it out, it works pretty good, though if you check my short video of it in action you will see it is cutting on one side more than the other and the side not cutting very well is getting jammed with shavings. I will need to do some more work on it.
    youtube video https://youtu.be/92sLFTtn3Ys

    Mike

  12. #131
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    Some Forstner bits never clear the shavings, right from new.
    The next one, same size, works like a dream.

    I did read about the original Forstners with no center point.
    I suppose in a mechanical drill press, no problems?

    I've learned that all Forstner bits with center points crush a spot of wood
    as much as 3 - 5 mm ahead of the bit.
    That shows in the finish when used as rough out tools.

  13. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    Mike, Forstners are a bit of a challenge in hand braces...
    I've used a blacksmiths post drill to drive a Forstner bit - with success. Useful if you're a hand-powered tools only person. Slow, but heaps of down-pressure. I don't know if it would work with that Millers Falls drill press you show in your Eggbeater thread.

    Cheers, Vann.
    Gatherer of rusty planes tools...
    Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club .

  14. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by code4pay View Post
    .... it is cutting on one side more than the other and the side not cutting very well is getting jammed with shavings. I will need to do some more work on it....
    Hi Mike, most likely one cutter has been filed back a bit more than the other (which you've probably already figured out). They are tricky to get dead-even, you can't sight along the cutter edges because the point is in the way, so it's a matter of trial & error to get them cutting reasonably evenly.

    The jamming of shavings in the 'throat' is one of the idiosyncrasies of Forstners, You can minimise it by polishing the throats as smooth as possible, but in some woods they will still choke once the bit is fully engaged whatever you do. With the DP, I just lift the bit out constantly, before the shavings get too compacted, & it will usually self-clear. They cope best with softer woods, but I frequently use them for drilling very hard woods like Gidgee & Bull oak, which is a bit above & beyond what they are designed for....

    Cheers,
    IW

  15. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vann View Post
    ... I don't know if it would work with that Millers Falls drill press you show in your Eggbeater thread..
    I reckon it should work fairly well, Vann. If the bit is sharp & the rims protruding the right amount, they don't take a huge amount of pressure in softer woods - just enough to sink the point in far enough for the cutters to engage. I would think you'd be able to apply enough pressure with the crank in all but very hard woods.

    The biggest advantage of using some sort of press is in keeping the bit tracking straight. Forstners have a very bad habit of going where they choose rather than where you want them to go, when used in a brace (or a battery drill, which I do fairly frequently).

    Cheers,
    IW

  16. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vann View Post
    I've used a blacksmiths post drill to drive a Forstner bit - with success. Useful if you're a hand-powered tools only person. Slow, but heaps of down-pressure. I don't know if it would work with that Millers Falls drill press you show in your Eggbeater thread.

    Cheers, Vann.
    Don’t rule it out - some of us have more down pressure than others

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