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  1. #1
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    Default Not for Brace Fanatics

    Hi. I've been buying brace bits to try to get a good set or two. I seem to have a high strike rate of badly filed, corroded or otherwise useless bits (probably well over 50%).

    Anyways, I bought these recently...

    Auger bits1HF.jpg
    ... but it wasn't until I opened the parcel that I realised the scale was all wrong

    Auger bits2HF.jpg shown next to a standard tapered bit.

    The square taper is massive. There's no way these will fit in any brace I own (and no thanks to boringgeoff I have a few ). So I guess they're for some sort of machine ? Anybody know?

    If you have a tool/machine that takes them, PM me and I'll list them in the For Sale section.

    Cheers, Vann.
    Gatherer of rusty planes tools...
    Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club .

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  3. #2
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vann View Post
    Hi. I've been buying brace bits to try to get a good set or two. I seem to have a high strike rate of badly filed, corroded or otherwise useless bits (probably well over 50%).

    Anyways, I bought these recently...

    Auger bits1HF.jpg
    ... but it wasn't until I opened the parcel that I realised the scale was all wrong

    Auger bits2HF.jpg shown next to a standard tapered bit.

    The square taper is massive. There's no way these will fit in any brace I own (and no thanks to boringgeoff I have a few ). So I guess they're for some sort of machine ? Anybody know?

    If you have a tool/machine that takes them, PM me and I'll list them in the For Sale section.

    Cheers, Vann.
    Vann,
    these are usually missing from this ratchet lever tool, and because of that the ratchet is called all kinds of things.
    It is a girder drilling machine, and you have the bits for it.
    The ratchet is commonly described as a lathe attchment of some sort. But they were used with a fabricated bracket to drill through steel or iron.
    I have a picture in a book somewhere....will look it up.
    Regards,
    Peter
    <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <woNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->

  4. #3
    Boringgeoff is offline Try not to be late, but never be early.
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    Default

    Vann,
    They are bits for an engineers ratchet drill. An early version of the morse taper perhaps? I'm not that boring that I collect only braces.

    Geoff
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Boringgeoff; 7th February 2014 at 09:04 AM. Reason: photo

  5. #4
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    Default

    OK ... how do they use the ones that Geoff pictured?

    and how do they drill straight with Vann's one's ... having only one lever-arm?

    Thanks,
    Paul

  6. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pmcgee View Post
    OK ... how do they use the ones that Geoff pictured?

    and how do they drill straight with Vann's one's ... having only one lever-arm?
    I'm assuming the the pointy end goes against something to push off (like the opposite side of a RSJ), while the drill bit goes into the other side (opposite the pointy thingy). You then use the arm to ratchet the drill bit clockwise, while manually applying pressure by screwing out the pointy thingy. Do I make that perfectly clear?


    Cheers, Vann.
    Gatherer of rusty planes tools...
    Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club .

  7. #6
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pmcgee View Post
    OK ... how do they use the ones that Geoff pictured?

    and how do they drill straight with Vann's one's ... having only one lever-arm?

    Thanks,
    Paul
    Paul,
    here is a pillar that you could purchase with the ratchet drill.
    If you had many holes to drill in a certain situation, or no other way of getting a drill in a place to turn a drill bit, you would fabricate a similar inverted "L" shape to go over the top of the drill, where the point was located in a little dimple, and your bit was against the work....pointing down, up or wherever you needed it to go.

    The lever ratchet arm is cranked, and the drill bit is turned, and also advanced by a slow screw thread inside the pointed (usually hex shaped) housing, which is held with a spanner and turned to control the force on the bit.
    They were able to be used in cramped situations, making holes in girders and such like....for bolts or rivets.

    A very nifty use of a lever and screw, and a frictionless point bearing...nice demo of some basic engineering principles to get a huge mechanical advantage to enable up to 1 inch and bigger holes to be drilled by hand in steel.
    Lots of work though!!!!
    Have a book somewhere with a picture of one in use...but its in a box in a cupboard..not on the bookshelf...darn!

    Peter

    <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <woNotOptimizeForBrowser/> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]-->

  8. #7
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    Default

    Thanks! I wasn't getting the idea of the bit going in the opposite side to the point.
    Cheers,
    Paul.

    PS ... how many rivets in the Sydney Harbour Bridge?

  9. #8
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    Default

    Bother, I can't open the pics.
    We don't know how lucky we are......

  10. #9
    Boringgeoff is offline Try not to be late, but never be early.
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    Default

    Vann, in your line of work you may be interested to know that one of the applications for this drill was boring holes in railway lines for fish plated joints and the like, where the drill was placed in a jig that used the opposite rail as the base.
    Happily, in my days in railway construction we had progressed to motorised drills.
    A Millers Falls catalogue offered a reducing socket to enable you to use ordinary brace bits in your ratchet drill. I'm still on the lookout for one of those.
    I'm also on the lookout for a Drilling Pillar as shown above by Peter, I've seen a couple of home made examples but a commercial one would be ideal for use in a display.
    Sean, you are really missing out not being able to view these photos I'm afraid I can't offer any solution to the problem there.
    Geoff.

  11. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by seanz View Post
    Bother, I can't open the pics.
    Desktop, phone or tablet?

  12. #11
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    Default

    Desktop (an actual PC, which makes me a cyber-luddite) running Win 7 and the latest update of Firefox. Usually I can open pics when others can't......

    They won't open in a window when I just click on them and when I 'open in new tab' there is a URL and an error message.
    We don't know how lucky we are......

  13. #12
    Boringgeoff is offline Try not to be late, but never be early.
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    Default Drilling Pillar

    The HTPS WA had an exhibit at the recent Brookton Old Time Motor Show and on my display I had a couple of the Engineers Ratchet Braces. I decided that to show this tool to it's best advantage I needed to construct a Drilling Pillar.
    I would really like a commercially made unit as shown by Lightwood but I suspect that a lot of owners of ERB would have made their own Pillars any way.
    I knocked this one up using the base from one of those drill stands that turned your electric drill into a drill press (Rustic Relics, Clayton St). The upper arm is from a piece of machinery off an illicit farm machinery dump(TBRD) in the bush near home (The Boringgeoff Resources Depot).
    The drill bit kindly supplied by Vann.
    It'll get its first outing at the Merredin Show this weekend.
    Most people won't know this but Merredin holds quite few World Records............Google it.
    Geoff.Drilling Pillar 001.jpg

  14. #13
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Boringgeoff View Post
    The upper arm is from a piece of machinery off an illicit farm machinery dump(TBRD) in the bush near home (The Boringgeoff Resources Depot).
    See, there are advantages in having such dry weather. Over here your Resources Depot would be a Rust Depot

    Quote Originally Posted by Boringgeoff
    The drill bit kindly supplied by Vann.
    I'm getting the impression you didn't have any of those drill bits . I though you had at least one of everything

    Cheers, Vann.

    800th post
    Gatherer of rusty planes tools...
    Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club .

  15. #14
    Boringgeoff is offline Try not to be late, but never be early.
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    Default

    Hi Vann,
    I did already have a couple of those bits but this one of yours is brand new and doesn't look as if its ever been used, so what better to put on show.
    Congrat's on your 8ooth.

    Geoff.

  16. #15
    Boringgeoff is offline Try not to be late, but never be early.
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    Default Morse taper bits.

    In recent research on Morse taper bits I came across this five year old thread so thought now's a good time to revive it.
    The square tapered bit mentioned previously is, as far as I can find, classified as Morse Square Taper and of course there is the more well known round Morse taper with which many of our pedestal drills are equipped.
    Stephen A. Morse of Bridgewater Mass. USA is reputed to have invented and patented the tapered tool holder in 1864 but none of the commentaries I have read have been able to cite a patent number.
    In fact, this article about replacement hip joints which use a Morse taper erroneously shows a Morse patent (US 42592) for a tool holder which makes no mention of a taper. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3779551/
    My request is, dear members of this forum, have you seen Morse's original tapered bit patent? If so please tell us the number.
    Cheers,
    Geoff.

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