Thread: Old Brass saw.

OW

That is a tricky question, collection of questions, to put it mildly.

The first thing is to establish that it is definitely brass, and I am only mentioning this because it is difficult to tell from the pix unless you had not expressly mentioned it. However, assuming this to be the case it does look as though there is a mark ahead of the handle that would have been the original handle and it looks to be more in keeping with a London pattern with the large cheek ahead of the handle hole.

Since the utilisation of steel for tools, I don't think anybody would seriously have considered brass for a saw except possibly for a display or advertising saw and for the moment that is my best guess. It may have been covered with something to make it appear to be made from steel but utilised brass so it did not rust out on them while they watched in the UK or even more so in the Channel Islands if it came from there.

Regards
Paul

Yes, are you sure its all brass, and not a steel saw that has been plated?
There is pitting below the handle indicative of steel - I've not seen that on brass.
If solid brass, then possibly for use in sawing somewhere where no sparks can be struck from steel eg in a munitions factory.
Also, it may not have been for cutting wood, eg in the case of munitions - for cutting cordite or plastique - I am only really thinking out loud here - and this spitballing of mine could be way off the mark
Tom

Hi Tom,
Where the blemish is on the saw which looks like metal,
i have passed a file on the top of the saw and it is brass, also i
have tried a very powerful magnet on the blade and it does not
connect to the blade.


Thanks Martin.

Tom

Cutting where sparks are a danger could be a possibility. I hadn't thought of that. In hydrogen environments at work we use beryllium spanners, which are an alloy based on brass.

Regards
Paul

One would have thought that brass is too soft to be of any use as a saw. If it was a bronze, then just maybe. The hardest material that I'm aware of that has a very brass look is manganese bronze, but because it has an iron component (around the 5% mark) it is mildly magnetic and that should be easily picked up with a half decent magnet.

Hi all,

I have cleaned the saw with a bit of wire wool
on the blemish and within a minute the blemish went.
It went back to the original colour of the rest of the saw.
Also i tried a very powerful magnet and it did not attach at all.
Have posted a pic of the blemish on one side and the one side
i passed with wire wool.

Martin.IMG_20210518_201000.jpgIMG_20210518_201011.jpgIMG_20210518_200951.jpg

Martin

Thank you for cleaning up the plate. I am still leaning towards an advertising or promotional saw. I can see where there was a nib once and the rounded toe speaks of an early rather than late 19th century saw. It troubles me that the teeth are a little uneven as if they have been sharpened a few times and not very well. Also the fact the teeth have been set would lead us to believe it has been used for cutting. If it were purely promotional I don't think they would have troubled to set the teeth.

Mmmm. Curious.

Regards
Paul

Hi Paul,

There was a lot of ship building in the 18th and 19th century
in Jersey Chanel islands. Maybe it was used on ships as there was a lot
of cod fishers who went to the Gaspe in Canada.

Martin.

I remember reading a Fine Woodworking article a fair while back - an interview with a saw collector who mentioned there were something like 400 saw makers in the USA but Diston was by far the largest.

Being a brass saw plate is quite rare I expect and leads more to the idea that was a specialist as mentioned above or possibly in the fish markets or meat trades?

In ancient Egypt bronze saws were used and before that flint saws but from the iron age onwards it would have been iron and steel. I cant see any advantage of a brass blade saw on a practical level. Still people take strange notions and someone went to the trouble of making that. Promotional has been mentioned so the other thing may be ceremony. Perhaps a presentation of some kind or to cut mistletoe by the full moon.
Regards
John

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

I remember reading a Fine Woodworking article a fair while back - an interview with a saw collector who mentioned there were something like 400 saw makers in the USA but Diston was by far the largest.

Being a brass saw plate is quite rare I expect and leads more to the idea that was a specialist as mentioned above or possibly in the fish markets or meat trades?

Mobyturns

Indeed there were quite a number. Erv Schaffer in his book "Handsaw Makers of North America" lists well in excess of five hundred (I did not count exactly but extrapolated an average per page by about twenty six pages). However, as I have pointed out before not all these companies would have actually made the saws themselves. By the end of the nineteenth century that number of makers would have been lucky to be even 10% and of those some were now made under the auspices of one of the major producers. Disston absorbed many producers and at the start of twentieth century was easily the most dominant. At one time Disston employed over 3700 people.

I think the fish trade used knives and cleavers. The butchering trade had knives and their own hacksaw style saws. It is difficult to imagine circumstances where a brass saw would have actually been used.

Promotional gimmickry abounded. If I was trying to draw attention to my products, I might consider something like this brass saw. I am fairly sure some oversize saws were produced for this purpose too: As in twice or three times as large.

One thing to bear in mind is that Martin is based in the UK and his saw is more than likely from there, while we have been talking extensively about American made product.

Regards
Paul

I see pitting on the blade. How is brass to rust? I'D say there is some brass layer on the saw. From a brass cleaning wheel?

Cheers
Pedder

Originally Posted by orraloon

In ancient Egypt bronze saws were used and before that flint saws but from the iron age onwards it would have been iron and steel. I cant see any advantage of a brass blade saw on a practical level. Still people take strange notions and someone went to the trouble of making that. Promotional has been mentioned so the other thing may be ceremony. Perhaps a presentation of some kind or to cut mistletoe by the full moon.
Regards
John

I saw a brass/bronze saw blade many years ago - perhaps the British Museum ?? - a beautiful shade of green, and about 10 mm thick. From memory I thought it was Roman, but it may have been Egyptian. I have vague memories that the continuum was copper saws, bronze saws, then the iron age revolutionised everything.

Just imagine the time between sharpenings for a copper saw!

Hi Martin

Brass is usually very soft, but there is no evidence in your photos that your blades are actually that soft.

Could it be some sort of harder alloy that is brass coloured?