Thread: Building an Infill Plane

My unnamed but classic unhandled infill is 7 1/2" long. The tapered Mathieson blade is 2" wide.

Typically, the Norris infills were bedded at 47 degrees. But you can build yours at anything you choose. I made one at 55 degrees.

Try Hock (http://www.hocktools.com/default.html) for a blade. Try either Shepherd planes (http://www.shepherdtool.com/) or St James Bay (http://www.stjamesbaytoolco.com/) for a cap iron.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek,

It is good to hear from experts like yourself and thank you for the feedback. I was thinking about getting Lie Nielsen 2in blade and the new improved chipbreaker. Would this be OKand whihc size would you recommend? One other questions. What is the reason for dovetailing the sole, except for saving material and looks nice probably? I was thinking about milling from a block of steel. Any recommendations.

Cheers
Sam

Sam - if you're having a go at an infill, I imagine you've already made a couple of other planes, otherwise the learning curve is going to be pretty steep. There are a few extra issues with infills, and I found having sorted out the basics on a couple of straight woodies helped a lot with the couple of infills (shoulder planes) I've tackled. I've yet to do a full-dovetailed version (there were a couple of small gaps in my shoulder-plane dovetails, so I cheated and went for the soldering torch), but am determined to tackle one just as soon as I can get down to it - sometime next year I hope.
I plan to make a smoother bedded at 50* - my reasoning being that you can get hold of any number of 45* planes of reasonable quality, and I would like at least one decent high-angle smoother. Haven't quite decided on what to stuff it with, yet - tossing up between She-oak, Gidgee and Red Lancewood - all of which I've used for replacement totes and knobs on metal planes, and all look pretty spiffy (and feel very comfy in the hand) buffed up with Shellawax....

Blades are relatively easy to come by - my pick is Lee Vally HSS blades as the best bang for buck around. As for cap irons; since you're launching into metalworking anyway, just make one - it's got to be the most straight-forward bit of the process. I've used 1/8 mild steel plate and lately, some stainless steel plate that was given me, that turned out to be a bit tougher than mild, but still easily workable. Both made very serviceable cap irons.

So I'll be very interested in following your progress. And if you find a local source for 3.5-4mm bronze plate, that would be really good info to share! There are plenty of places you can get casting bronze, it seems, but plate is hard to come by in that sort of thickness. Brass is ok, but has to be peined carefully to avoid flaking and chipping. Bronze is the stuff all the pundits recommend, and I'd certainly like to give some a try.

Cheers,

Ian,

Thanks for the reply. I did built and repaired few planes in the past. The reason I am tackling this project is that I have an access to a NC milling machine which is capable of machining anything as lons as I have a proper CAD drawing, which is why I am trying to get the drawings right. I can ask you the same question as I asked to Derek as well. What is the reason for dovetailing if you can machine the whole sole from a one-piece steel? I'll keep an eye on the bronze plate. I'd like to machine the lever cap from from bronze if I can get one otherwise I might end up using mild steel as well.

Regards
Sam

Hi Sam - I guess the reason for dovetailing was it was the most convenient way to join metal plate when this style of metal-bodied planes were first made - MIG welders were still a ways down the track. A lot of infill planes have cast bodies, but you do get a neater internal fit with dovetailing, which may have been a consideration.

The reason for dovetailing now is probably purely for show - it's hard to resist the appeal of bronze sides attached by these 'impossible' joints to a steel sole!

If you can machine the body out of a solid block (a fair amount of metal to gnaw away, by golly!), why not? - it can only be stronger than a dovetailed unit. You wouldn't need to rivet in the re-inforcing chunk to the sole behind the blade slot, either - just machine that part thicker, though it might complicate chopping out the blade slot in the sole (?). If your block is well-milled, you should end up with a very accurately made chassis, that would be relatively easy to fit out and get the blade seated nicely, etc.

I think I mis-read your original post - I thought you were asking about a cap-iron, not the lever cap. The lever cap is a bit more of a challenge, as it requires a lot more shaping of thick metal, but brass is not hard to work with - just hacksaw out the rough profile and go at it with files. It's worth buying a couple of newies for the job - files don't work too well on brass after they've been dulled a bit on steel. The trick of chalking your files before you begin really helps to prevent clogging, and it is very quick (and satisfying!) to clean up brass with sandpaper and a buffing wheel to a high polish. Brass should be just as satisfactory as bronze for a lever-cap, and it is very easy (and surprisingly cheap) to buy brass plate in a wide range of thicknesses and widths. Doing a knurled screw should be a snap if you have acces to a good metal lathe.

Go for it, and keep us posted.....
Cheers,

Sam

Ian has answered as if with my own words, that is, said everything I would have.

My choice would be to dovetail the sides - not for a better performance, but just because it was traditional (since you did say you were wanting to copy a Norris) and nicer looking (brass on steel is very attractive). It you want a modern infill, then you can designit anyway you choose. As Ian noted, there were also infills made that were cast and not dovetailed.

Like Ian I thought you were referring to a lever cap, not a cap iron (although I did use "cap iron"). You can certainly build a plane using the thickest LN blades (Wayne Anderson does, and he makes the VERY best infills ever - see http://www.andersonplanes.com/). However, if you go to a 1/4" thickness, or a 60 degree frog angle, you will not need a cap iron at all.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Derek, Ian

Many thanks for the reply. I think I have got enough to start and I sure keep you updated how it progress. As Ian suggested, I decided to make the cap iron as well. My question is the tapered front section where cap iron touches the blade. How critical that angle is? and what do you recommend? Is it customery to make the width of the cap iron slighly shorter than the balde? For the infill, what is a nice wood that I can use in Australia?

Sam

Originally Posted by sam63

Hi Derek, Ian
My question is the tapered front section where cap iron touches the blade. How critical that angle is? and what do you recommend? Is it customery to make the width of the cap iron slighly shorter than the balde?
Sam

Sam - In my view, not all that critical - you just want to make sure that when you tighten the lever cap, it presses down evenly across the end of the cap-iron. The top part of the lever cap is rounded off so that shavings won't catch as they come up through the mouth (and to look neater). You really don't need any shaping underneath, though it seems to be traditional to make a cove just behind the bottom edge. The lever is coming down at an angle to the cap-iron, so it will naturally meet at the tip. (Not sure if I'm making myself clear, but if you make a mockup out of a piece of wood, you'll soon see the relationship.
The cap-iron is usually shorter than the blade, (but there's no fixed rule about the exact proportion - just allow plenty for wear of the blade). It should be exactly the same width as the blade, at least where it bears on the back of the cutting end.

Originally Posted by sam63

For the infill, what is a nice wood that I can use in Australia?

Sam

My choices: One of the hard, dark Acacias (Gidgee, Mulga, etc.) Eastern She-oak, (mid-brown to dark brown) Lancewood (red) Red gum (red) Qld Maple (pinkish cream). All of these can be polished to a very silky-feeling surface that will look pretty spiffy. But there are lots of other choices, that otheres will probably suggest.

Hi Ian,

My apolagies for the confusion. I meant the taper on the top side not the face touching the blade. If you have look at Lie Nielsen or Hock ones, the top section tapers down to blade with an angle. I was asking about that angle.

Cheers
Sam

Originally Posted by sam63

Hi Ian,

My apolagies for the confusion. I meant the taper on the top side not the face touching the blade. If you have look at Lie Nielsen or Hock ones, the top section tapers down to blade with an angle. I was asking about that angle.

Cheers
Sam

Sam - now I'm confused - let's get our terms straight so we're both singing from the same hymn book. See diagram below, A = blade; B = cap-iron (or 'chip-breaker' as the Yanks want to call it); C = lever cap.

The cap-iron has a slight bend at the end so that it will bear on the cutter in a small area close to the cutting edge. The actual angle isn't critical - you just need enough bend so that the cap-iron will bear down on the blade evenly when the lever cap is tightened down. This bend can be a simple straight 'kink' - doesn't need to be rounded like the manufactured ones. You can file and smooth the top a bit so it looks pleasing, and I like to polish the surface - makes shavings slip out of the thoat smoothly.

I've drawn the cap iron with a somewhat exaggerated bevel on the bit that meets the blade. You just need enough clearance so that the force is applied evenly, in a thin straight line, as close to the cutting edge as possible. The lever cap is going to bear down on the top of the cap iron and clamp everything in place.

As long as each bit can do what it needs to, the amount of fairing and polishing of the parts is up to individual taste, more than any functional considerations though I do believe polishing the cap iron adds to function.

Hope that is a better answer to your question...
Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Sam - now I'm confused - let's get our terms straight so we're both singing from the same hymn book. See diagram below, A = blade; B = cap-iron (or 'chip-breaker' as the Yanks want to call it); B = lever cap.

Ian,
Now I'm confused more ...I take it the lever cap is really labelled "C" on your diagram, not "B"!!
Wading in here, and not exactly knowing what Sam is talking of either, but maybe he means the angle of the taper in the piece, not the angle of the bend itself.

Cheers,

Woops - thanks Andy, the lever cap was meant to be 'C'. I just edited the post and fixed my stupid typo.

I'm not sure what Sam means, exactly, either, I'm trying to establish a few general ground rules and see if we can get to it. From what I think he's asking, there aren't any truly critical angles, near enough is good enough for most, as long as it all snugs up, and nothing gets in the way....

Cheers,

My apolagies for the confusion. I meant the taper on the top side not the face touching the blade. If you have look at Lie Nielsen or Hock ones, the top section tapers down to blade with an angle. I was asking about that angle.

I think Sam is talking about the top of the chipbreaker. Earlier he wrote:

My question is the tapered front section where cap iron touches the blade. How critical that angle is?

Sam, the aim of the chipbreaker (in this instance) is to guide the wood chip out of the plane. I don't think that there is a hard-and-fast rule about this angle. Keep in mind that the blade is bedded at 45 degrees (?). Too high an angle for the chipbreaker - and why you want to use one I just cannot understand - still that is your choice - and the chip will fall back into the mouth and block it. So I'd suggest about 20-25 degrees.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi Ian,

Sorry again for the confusion. I think Derek answered the question. I was refering to the cap iron or chip breaker. I hope they are the same. In your drawing it is curved at the end where as if you look at the Lie Nielsen or Hock improved chip breakers, they are a flat piece of metal (at least that is how they look on the photo, and hope that is the case- see the attachment) with an tapered end, which Derek suggested 20-25 degrees. Thanks again for the replies.

PS: I hope I can keep asking these type of questions untill I finish building the plane. It will be a very nice learning experience.

Cheers
Sam