Thread: Calling all Lie-Nielsen smoothing plane users

Originally Posted by ian

I have a feeling that the changes will come in and we'll all be screwed.
......
So
1) hopefully, Lie Nielsen and Lee Valley and other specialist retailers aren't captured by the $75,000 threshold for annual sales to Australia and

2) get ready to bombard your local politician should eBay and/or Amazon and/or Google Play store / Apple iTunes store stop Australian's using their services.

How true, Ian, plus chaos.

Should not affect LN and LV as both already sell through Australian distributors, not direct.

Ebay is interesting; they do not actually sell anything into Australia, thousands of their vendors do though, and the vast majority would sell less than $75,000 into Oz. It is probably illegal for Ebay to reveal their client's confidential information.

Amazon may simply decline to cooperate with Australian tax authorities. Whole realm of extrajurisdictional enforcement opens! Does Customs prohibit or tax books from Amazon, but allow those from Book Depository?

Electronic downloaders, Apple, Google, etc, are even more interesting. And there are both GST and Corporate Income Tax issues. Do they comply, and perhaps they never have in the past, will some sort of withholding tax be created for their benefit, will NBNCo or RSP's be required to block their downloads, or what????

I suspect they are making it up as the go. Stand by for chaos!



Cheers

Graeme

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

How true, Ian, plus chaos.

Should not affect LN and LV as both already sell through Australian distributors, not direct.

Cheers

Graeme

There is virtually no chance, IMO, that Lee Valley and Lie Nielsen aren't selling more than $75000 of their products directly to Australian customers (not through their Au distributors) and thus will also be affected.

It will be interesting to see if it all goes ahead and if it works out. As with all similar laws it will be the reputable people that comply and suffer most.

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

How true, Ian, plus chaos.

Should not affect LN and LV as both already sell through Australian distributors, not direct.

LV and LN both sell direct to Australian customers as well as through their Australian distributors. The question is:
do either of them have more than $75,000 per year in direct sales to Australian end users.

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

Ebay is interesting; they do not actually sell anything into Australia, thousands of their vendors do though, and the vast majority would sell less than $75,000 into Oz. It is probably illegal for Ebay to reveal their client's confidential information.

Amazon may simply decline to cooperate with Australian tax authorities. Whole realm of extrajurisdictional enforcement opens! Does Customs prohibit or tax books from Amazon, but allow those from Book Depository?

in terms of the changes, both eBay and Amazon (and I guess AliExpress) are defined as ‘electronic distribution platforms’ (EDPs). Reading between the lines, this is where the ATO expects to collect the most revenue.
BUT according to the Productivity Commission, eBay has strongly hinted that they are not going to play -- they have little if any interest in becoming a tax collector for the Australian Government (or any other government for that matter) so making an example of Australian consumers could be in their best long term business interest.


If we think we are being screwed over, spare a thought for cyclists the Productivity Commission found that

the magnitude of [the expected benefit for domestic retailers] is expected to be limited, since low value imports represent a small share of most retail subsectors (some segments such as bicycle parts and accessories are larger).

Ozhunter,
I have too many planes, including some well tuned Stanley planes with thick blades and a few Chinese made Luban planes and a Woodriver low angle Block plane, they are all fine tools that perform well. But the true premium planes like Veritas and Lie Nielsen are on a different level of performance straight out of the box with just a sharpen and hone. Many will say that you can tune a Stanley to perform as well as a premium plane and yes it can be done but it is a lot of work and is a steep learning curve. I have ruined more than one plane or spent time on a plane that should have been scrap metal a long before I got to it.

My favourite planes are Block planes but with bench planes I like the LN4 in bronze,LN 5 1/2 and the LN 6. I also have a LN 4 1/2 and a LN 5 that I don't use as the other three do everything I want. A mate has a LN 62 that he reckons is the only plane you will ever need besides a block plane. He has that 62 plane and some extra blades ground in different ways.

Then there is the "I like it and I want it" as well as the pride of ownership thing. My advise is if you think you want a LN 4 in bronze, go for it. It will mark a special birthday and will be with you long after you forget the price.. All the best.

Hi Graheme ,

My son recently bought a couple of thousand dollars worth of text books from overseas and received a demand for import duty from Fed ex couriers who delivered the books within 48 hours of the payment being made to them. I imagine they then paid the necessary duty to who ever receives those monies in the Australian Govt. Perhaps it could work through those already existing systems. I'm just guessing that the Govt will not want to reinvent the wheel but modify existing systems.

Best regards
Jeff

Originally Posted by labrat

Hi Graheme ,

My son recently bought a couple of thousand dollars worth of text books from overseas and received a demand for import duty from Fed ex couriers who delivered the books within 48 hours of the payment being made to them. I imagine they then paid the necessary duty to who ever receives those monies in the Australian Govt. Perhaps it could work through those already existing systems. I'm just guessing that the Govt will not want to reinvent the wheel but modify existing systems.

Best regards
Jeff

Hi Jeff

But FedEx is the shipping Company, not the vendor. Amazon is not being asked to collect the duty.

The point I was trying to make is that AusPost is not geared to collect millions (literally) of additional customs and GST charges and the system may just clog up.

Alternatively, how can the government expect "unwilling" overseas vendors to cooperate. Many channels such as eBay, Aliexpress, Alibaba, Trademe and oftentimes Amazon (when it sells for third parties) are advertising or auction agents and not the actual vendor.

But the government action is not being driven by hardnose economics or fiscal rationalism - the Productivity Commission has assessed that it will cost more to administer the increased tax than will be raised. It is being driven by political pressure and political donations, please do not read bribes, from a small number of large retail chains. Chaos will be a win for thr proponents.


Cheers

Graeme

Originally Posted by labrat

My son recently bought a couple of thousand dollars worth of text books from overseas and received a demand for import duty from Fed ex couriers who delivered the books within 48 hours of the payment being made to them. I imagine they then paid the necessary duty to who ever receives those monies in the Australian Govt. Perhaps it could work through those already existing systems. I'm just guessing that the Govt will not want to reinvent the wheel but modify existing systems.

This is the system in Canada.

The only problem (and it's only a small problem) is that the courier companies (UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc) make their own assessment on what the import duty and GST are and then add a brokerage fee -- which for a small shipment might be more than the goods are worth.
Living here for some of the year I have examples where the courier company's assessment of the duties and taxes owing are 4 to 5 times what Border Services Canada assess as the amount due. And then at least one of the companies calculates their handling charge as a percentage of the shipment's value.



I understand that the Aus legislation requires the overseas retailer to collect and remit the 10% GST