Thread: Canadian Stanley 41/2

The ogee shoulders on the frog indicate it's a post-1957; after WW2 Record used stained beech for all their timber parts so unfortunately it's unlikely to be any form of rosewood unless they've been replaced. I have post WW2/pre '57 planes with original furniture that are definitely not Rosewood. Unfortunately!

If you pop the bits off and inspect the bases I'm pretty sure you'll see unstained wood; I'm trying to recall if Record stained by wiping or dipping... and I'm 6hrs away from my shed so I can't check my planes....

Chief, I agree there seems to be a disconnect between the woodwork & the rest of the plane. The tote is too shapely for a post-1957 model. I'm pretty sure that "furniture" is not beech, and not at all certain it is a Dalbergia, but happy to be corrected if it turns out to be so. Applying Occams razor, the simplest explanation is that someone has either swapped older woodwork or made new bits..... ??
Cheers,

Hi CT and IanW. Are you two still talking about my plane? The photo is of a Made in USA Stanley #4C (according to the base). The handle has a Record sticker on it (on the top, blue oval) and maybe the knob is a replacement too. I think I remember trying to date it and thought it was earlier than 1957 but I am no expert. Handle is lovely to hold and blade has made in USA too.

Ah; I thought it was a Record 4!

In that case… it’s a post ‘33 Stanley 4 that someone has fitted Record wooden parts to. You’ve stated that the handle has the blue oval Record sticker or decal (any chance of a pic?) and I can see the front knob has the bead detail on the base that emulated the very early Stanley knobs. The timber could therefore be pre WW2 rosewood as David believes it to be. The sticker or decal on the handle will confirm if it’s post ‘57 (must be beech) or ‘31-‘56 (could be either!).

Hi CT. Here is the sticker

20220727_083136.jpg

Not much of it left but looks like a Record label to me

20220727_083146.jpg

The rest of the plane seems to match. Any ideas on the age of this blade?

I do remember that the blade was in the wrong way round and I was surprised that the guy I bought it from had left it that way. Maybe he didn't know it was wrong.

Ok; the decal on the handle is definitely Record; it's the first type from 1931 to 1956 so the timber could well be rosewood. If it was the 2nd type then it definitely wouldn't be!

The blade is from between 1933 and "sometime in the 1950's" to quote Patrick Leach's Stanley plane type study. Have a close look and see if the business end is of laminated construction; on early blades the section below the slot had a thin slice of high carbon steel forge welded onto the softer steel blade body. This shows as a darker material, the join can also be sometimes seen along the side edges of the blade and a freshly ground edge sometimes shows the two different steels. If it is a laminated blade then it is pre-WW2.

Pull the frog off and look at the central rib; if it is in the shape of a "Y" then it it is a Canadian version of the US type 19 and will date after 1949. Hopefully it's in the shape of a "T"; that puts the model at either a copy of the US type 16 (pre WW2) or type 18 (post WW2 and only just starting to suffer from slacker manufacturing tolerances).

At the end of the day you have a good user plane there; just clean it up a bit!

Thanks CT. Please see photos below

This looks like a "Y" to me but "Made in U.S.A." pretty obvious too. ???
20220727_135039.jpg

I would say this is the lamination line? Just bisecting the bottom of the hole
20220727_135129.jpg

The problem with this plane is that it stays in the Ute and only this morning got rained on. No nice life above my workbench, next to all it's mates, gently inclined and occasionally coming out for a bit of a jaunt.

And I make another boo-boo...

Sorry Julian; I forgot this plane isn't from the original "Canadian 4-1/2" thread... maybe it should have been in a new one !

Type 19 USA; made when Stanley quality just started to go down the quality slope. Still better than a Made In England or Aus plane though.

Hmmm... the laminated blade raises a couple of questions; it may be an older blade.

Even though the timber parts are Record rather than Stanley they're worth holding on to. They would sell on their own for $50+

I probably should apologise for hijacking the thread. Appreciate your research on my behalf Ian. Looking again at the handles, they are lovely.

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

I would say this is the lamination line? Just bisecting the bottom of the hole
20220727_135129.jpg

Could you post a shot of the whole blade? Is the Stanley logo on this side?

If the iron is laminated, the distinct steels would be visible on the face of the cutting iron, not on the bevel side. On the back side, it would be the same steel type. The discoloration may be due to sanding too.

The sharp cut outs at the top of the cutting iron are an indication of older manufacture. They are rounded in later and current production.

Raf

Here you go R.

Cap iron side
20220801_143717.jpg

Frog side
20220801_143724.jpg

Originally Posted by raffo

Could you post a shot of the whole blade? Is the Stanley logo on this side?

If the iron is laminated, the distinct steels would be visible on the face of the cutting iron, not on the bevel side. On the back side, it would be the same steel type. The discoloration may be due to sanding too.

The sharp cut outs at the top of the cutting iron are an indication of older manufacture. They are rounded in later and current production.

Raf

The Australian genuine Stanley HSS blade I have is butt joined not a lamination sandwhich. The butt join is visible on both sides of the blade.

I have finished cleaning up both planes and reassembling them, sharpened and tried them out.
They both finished up nice, I think the timber on the Canadian 41/2 is defiantly rosewood and the timber on the Aussie 51/2 would probably be best described as some sort of Tasmanium gum tree, but it came up nice with some walnut stain and a couple of coats of shellac and some wax applied with oooo grade steel wool.
The blade on the 41/2 is laminated and sharpened up better than the other. The machining on the Canadian plane is much better than the Aussie one, when I fitted the frog over the spine on the base I can get a 2th feeler in each side and on the Aussie one I can get 45th one side and 50th the other.
Both planes were ok on some cranky old dry red iron bark, the Canadian with the laminated blade was the best.

Cheers Rick.

Originally Posted by Mobyturns

The Australian genuine Stanley HSS blade I have is butt joined not a lamination sandwhich. The butt join is visible on both sides of the blade.

MA's blade does look like the butt-jointed Australian HSS blades - there's a distinct line just in front of the cut-out on both sides & the metal each side looks different. (See some good pics on Peter McBrides website here). However, it's clearly stamped "Made in USA" - did Stanley USA ever make such blades?? As far as I know, they didn't, they only made them here as a continuation of a practice started by Titan just before the takeover. Afaik, the old Stanley laminated blades were sandwich-laminated, not two butt-joined pieces, so there shouldn't be a joint-line on both sides....

Can one of our resident rhykenologists solve this one??

Cheers,