Thread: Card Scrapers vs Scraper Planes

Hi Dion -

If I can jump in here - I'd recommend just a regular hand scraper to start off with. The main reason, is it gives you good tactile feedback - and it's the best way to learn how to scrape - an essential technique for just about any woodworker. Planes (#80, #112, #212 types) are a bit more difficult to set up - and are really best looked at once you're comfortable with hand work.

Sharpening and edge burnishing is key too - so you'll want to focus on learning how put a good hook on a scraper. Lots of info on sharpening out there.... Two most common mistakes to be aware of are:

1) putting too much pressure on a burnisher
2) burnishing at too great an angle

Practice really does help here - but once you've got it, it's once of the most useful techniques you'll learn!


Cheers -

Rob

Geez Rob, what would you know?


Ben.

Originally Posted by Ben from Vic.

Geez Rob, what would you know?


Ben.

Well Ben -

The longer I'm in this business, the more I find out how much I don't know....which is why I hang out on bulletin boards...

'course, I have to reverse everything I learn here for application in the Northern Hemisphere.....

Cheers -

Rob

Dion

Rob is absolutely right. First get comfortable with card scrapers before you move onto cabinet scrapers. This will give you a feel for the process of scraping. Actually, I enjoy card scrapers much more than any other type of scraper I have. It is always a thing of wonder to watch shavings peel off the end of a piece of thin steel plate. The hardest thing to get right with card scrapers is the correct burnishing of a hook. The Veritas Variable Burnisher just happens to be the best in the business for automated burnishing and really makes it an easy process.

I have not used the Veritas insert that converts a plane into a scraper plane. I have not heard anyone raving about them either. Personally I would much rather aim to get a #80 scraper, which is in the same price range (or just a little more). The granddaddy here is the Stanley #80 which is still manufactured and sold. It is a very good tool. LV have brought out their own version, which has a slightly larger footprint (this is better) and has come in for some praise. This is much better value that getting a HNT Gordon smoother and using that as a scraper. The problem with this set up is that, while the HNT Gordon makes an excellent scraper, it is not efficient to use it as such and as a smoother as well. You'd be sharpening blades all the time (unless you buy a second blade, but the extra cost then begins to defeat the advantage of two-in-one).

Hope this helps.

Regards from Perth

Derek

For what it's worth, Rob and Derek talk a lot of sense - start with card scrapers.

When you graduate from those, the Veritas cabinet scraper is a really nice piece of kit and very reasonably priced. I have it and a Stanley #80 and I like the Veritas much better. Sharpening/burnishing the blade is not overly difficult, and the instructions included in the box are excellent.

Dion,

I have shied away from scraper planes on the advice of several very experienced woodworkers who purchased scraper planes and were disappointed. Their plane scrapers are gatherring dust whilst they use hand scrapers.

I use hand scrapers and yes, once you get the sharpening right, they work brilliantly.

I was going to go against the above wisdom a little by claiming that a beginner can probably get a #80 to make some sort of shavings more easily than a card scraper. By bowing the blade enough, you can bludgeon it into a rough semblance of scraping, whereas it's near impossible to produce other than sawdust with an improperly burnished card scraper. However, on reflection, I concede the absolute wisdom of Rob's and Derek's advice. Once you do get the card scraper to work, the magic of the Gossamer shavings that start to pile up diverts you from noticing that your thumbs and outer little-fingers have just sustained 2nd degree burns. Both these wiley old campaigners know that the agony and the ecstasy of this experience will start you on a path that will soon see you buying a # 80 style, and then the 112 style with the adjustable blade angle, in an attempt to get the performance of a card scraper without the pain.......
Because you can easily adjust the attack angle of the card scraper to cater for the slightly varied hook that hand burnishing provides (not a problem, I guess with the Veritas gadget, and a good point in its favour), an experienced scraper can re-burnish several times before having to re-true the edge. You can also easily make the hook more or less agressive to suit the job, so all in all, the advice to get hold of a card scraper and master it is very sound! And the most attractive part is the price - a mere $10 gets you up and running, unless you choose to spring for the auto-burnisher first up, but then this might be detracting from the learning experience?? While a screwdraiver shaft is not ideal, it does work. A smoothed-off 3-cornered file has served me well for more years than I can remember.
What hasn't been said yet, is to warn you that some woods respond to scraping much better than others. Rule of thumb: the harder the wood, the better it scrapes (and the better it barbeques fingers!). Most softwoods (like pine) and some hardwoods (Aust. Red Cedar) don't respond well at all. And a few, like N.G. Rosewood present a real challenge! Most of the bits I've worked with had highly 'rowed' grain, that left pick-out after my very best efforts with a smoother. The card scraper bridges the gap, but has to be kept absolutely sharp and perfectly burnished, or it pulls fibres and leaves a slightly furry surface. Very light sanding finally gets you there, but seems like a backward step when you are used to the sort of surfaces that some woods will scrape to.
Learning about scrapers (from a very early edition of FWW) was the single best thing in my w'working career. I reckon what it has saved me in sandpaper alone would pay for 25 years subscriptions 10 times over, not to mention the kilograms of dust my lungs have been saved from!
Cheers,

IanW, no offence intended but from your statements and reading between the lines I can only assume that you may not actually own a Veritas No80. Your statements regarding this device (bludgeon it into...) are IMHO quite mistaken.
One of the advantages of this piece of equipment is that to get it to work for the finest finish you dont even have to put a hook on the scraper and believe me, speaking as one who owns a Veritas, there is very little effort involved in producing a fine finish.
If you are a fan of scrapers I can highly recommend this device, for what it does it's very good value for money.
Kind regards
Termite

Termite - you are right, I don't have the Veritas, but I have had the Stanley 'grandparent' for a very long time.
I didn't mean to belittle the instrument - I agree it can do fine work, and I use my old Stanley a lot - I also use card scrapers even more, for fine finishing where appropriate. I was just trying to support the notion that mastering the card scraper is a really good introduction to scraping as a general method. But I stand by what I said - you can force the 80-style scraper to "work" after a fashion by putting an aggressive bow in a not-too-well-prepared blade - it doesn't produce a particularly fine finish under those circumstances, which might discourage the beginner. But it's hard to get good performance out of a hand-held card scraper unless it is sharpened and burnished reasonably well. Do you not agree?
Cheers,

Yes I agree totally. One can only hope that newcomers will persevere long enough to reap the benefits of scrapers.
Kind regards
Termite

For a modest outlay i reckon the Lee VAlley scraper kit is the go. You end up with about 6 scrapers, the variable burnisher, the scraper holder to avoid the 2nd degree burns, a file and file holder.

This makes it dead simple to get the scraper working to its full potential without the agro of a learning curve of any sort.

To the contributors to this thread: Congratulations, gents, this is an excellent tutorial on the use of scrapers. I am continually impressed by the quality of knowledge and expertise on this great website and by the generosity of the contributors in sharing it.

My contribution, for what it's worth: I bought a Veritas burnishing tool recently. It comes with a card scaper. I had never used one previously but I followed the well-written instructions and within 30 minutes I was producing curly shavings and a beautifully smooth finish on some tricky-grained jarrah. The difference in finish compared to a sand-papered result is astonishing.

Col

Thank you all for your advice. The wealth of experience available truly is one of the best aspects of this board.

I will definitely start small and get a card scraper to start learning and practicing with. But I do have a question now in relation to burnishing. I wouldn't mind giving hand burnishing a go rather than jump straight onto the Veritas Variable Burnisher. Obviously the rod has to be harder than the scraper, but are modern screwdrivers likely to be harder? I do have some old files from my Dad's era, but I use them, so I don't want to go converting them into burnishers.

I note that Timbecon and Carbatec sell the "Tri burnisher" for use on the curved scrapers. Since the aim is to produce a hook in relation to the edge,, surely a circular burnishing rod would work on these scrapers if you keep it at the same angle all the way along the edge? And is a curved scraper really necessary or just easier to use for curved surfaces?

I wouldn't mind giving hand burnishing a go

Dion

If you really want to go cheap, try the following:

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ad.php?t=11330

Note, if you want to use a file, you must grind it smoo-ooo-th. To do this you will have to remove the temper, grind it, then return the temper. Old (and I mean OLD) screwdrivers might do the trick. I haven't used the Veritas Tri-Burnisher (only the Variable Burnisher) but their products are all first class and I cannot imagine that you'd be disappointed in the product, per se. However, you may be disappointed in the outcome since you have little experience with hook angles, etc.

My recommendation is go for the Variable burnisher.

Regards from Perth

Derek