Chisel & Rasps rests for storage

**ch!ppy** · 22nd September 2012, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Chippy - one of the things I'll be trying is a backing to restrict breakout (for the hell of it). In deference to your concern about MDF on "his" saw I'm just going to use 3mm. This will be a trial cut to see what gives (these are from Blue Gum and it breaks out even more than Ironbark). There will, of course, be an unconventional technique or two, and my money is on one of these to take the cake actually (not talking dovetails here, just trenches)

sure Bret, av a go at what you want, it might be enlightening to you, i was only to trying be helpful and thought you by posting the questions wanted the comments.

I'm not sure why you said its ''my concern'' about MDF, you were the one who mentioned it only a few posts back, Quote; "I'd not considered the abrasiveness of MDF" (up to that point i hadnt mentioned anything other than i wouldn't (and i dont) use ''my'' good hand tools in MDF). Given that comment i assume you had these concerns so i'm not quite sure what or, who, changed your mind in that short time between posts! and transfer them solely to me, buts its pretty common knowledge really ...not sure why you highlight "his" saw either, its your saw now isnt it? (is there some sort of slight your reading into my posts? i assure you there isnt any on my part about his saw afaia concerned) anyway point is i have always taught people to have respect for their tools especially the cutting edges of them (hard habit to get out of), helps if you learn it from the start i find, more particularly their premium tools reserved for nice work (nowadays its easy to have a bunch of second rate tools that are relegated to, opening paint tins, chopping through nails, dont mind resting on the concrete or cutting through MDF and particle board etc..its really just an ethos to adopt (but has a sound basis in logos as well), particularly if you want to develop in hand tool use (and this being a hand tool forum...seems reasonable to say). MDF and other contemporary manufactured materials are better suited to be worked with (contemporary) power tools, with carbide bits etc...that doesnt mean the DT saw wont slice through the MDF (the stuff is like cardboard), its just a bad craftsman's practise is all , if you do it this time (on a brand new saw mind) then there's no stopping you doing it all the time, so its not just 3mm you are sawing through, eventually it adds up to meters, and meters..it seemed worthwhile to point out and now contradictory of you to ignore considering that in the earlier post you have even gone to the extreme precaution of making cradles for your chisels, so the edges dont touch the wooden surface of your bench! but dont mind slicing through MDF with your super fine .015" thin blade, 16 ppi new dovetail...it just doesn't add up to me ol mate!

anyway whats done is done, it will be interesting to see what the 3mm MDF does that a good scribe line wouldnt, its only thin after all and like stiff cardboard at that thickness

cheers
chippy

**FenceFurniture** · 22nd September 2012, 10:24 PM

No worries at all Chippy. I was just carrying on the "he/his" gag, and you're right - it's mine now! Well I just wanted to experiment with the MDF backing to see what would happen you see. You know how all you pros "want to get the job done" - so do I a lot of the time, especially towards the end of the day.

Btw, I just assumed you were referring to the abrasiveness of the MDF.

**ch!ppy** · 22nd September 2012, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

No worries at all Chippy. I was just carrying on the "he/his" gag, and you're right - it's mine now! Well I just wanted to experiment with the MDF backing to see what would happen you see. You know how all you pros "want to get the job done" - so do I a lot of the time, especially towards the end of the day.

Btw, I just assumed you were referring to the abrasiveness of the MDF.

ah oaky doeky ,,,

'just want to get the job done', your right about that, not much stops me when things are on the go, especially if i have people on the clock or on contract, but, almost never at the expense of the sharp edge of my tools (particularly hand tools)...there are times when its been a choice of damaging a tool for the sake of time and money, i usualy do everything to avoid that, most particularly if its my hand tool that asked to be sacrificed , luckily there is almost always another option to using my best hand tools (i have spares that i dont value as much), so i use and old tool or the original can be replaced easy (power saw blades etc or cheap chisels), or maybe someone else's

. but there have been times when i've bit the bullit and said to ruin a decent tool to get the job done because of time and money being critical but never when there's another option and some tools you would have to pry em out of my cold dead hands to abuse in such a way...MDF and the like is just a horrible thing to a carpenter, rather not have it in my workshop at all, i think i might actually like steel better than MDF

...

**IanW** · 23rd September 2012, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

....... The kerf in the saw cover (Cedar I'd say) has been cut by Ian, and no doubt with this saw. Just imagine how that thin Cedar wants to snap.....

I don't think I could kerf a long, thin bit of wood as neatly as that! Sorry to blow my reputation, but I kerfed a pile of strips from some old cedar (your id is correct) that termites have rendered useless for fine furniture (little bar stewards! ), using the same slotting saw setup I use for slotting the backs.

Cheers,

**FenceFurniture** · 23rd September 2012, 08:30 PM

Hmmm. So I went fishing last nights, but no bites.

**FenceFurniture** · 24th September 2012, 03:06 PM

Looks I'll have to up-anchor, and move the boat. Couldn't get any bites at all!

Well, I did say straight off the saw. That was one of the things I changed:

You were supposed to be wondering how I became a hand saw genious literally overnight.

The Kapex (and maybe many other SCMS saws - I don't know) has a depth stop. It doesn't have the range that I would like, but this job was within its capacity. The piece of MDF is the support backing for the job. Multiple cuts yields a rough bottom trench (this is an 80 tooth blade with no flat top teeth - left and right bevel only for cross cutting). But they are hell easy to clean up by paring with a chisel.
Now before you start

I have to say that this technique was thoroughly fit for purpose. No marking out, no knifing, saved at least 45 minutes to an hour (just trace the file blade in position), angles are easy peasy, and the trenching and chiselling of the bottom takes but a few minutes - maybe ten minutes for the most complex stick (2nd from the left). I would estimate that it would have saved me about three hours all up

Here are the first two that I did after the various much appreciated coaching posts (didn't flip it around to touch up the back - just stuck me scone over like Chippy suggested):

These two trenches really are straight off the DT. So, please don't think your posts were a waste of time Chippy and Ian. On the contrary, they have propelled me one step closer to having a go at the real thing (DT).

**IanW** · 24th September 2012, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

..... I have to say that this technique was thoroughly fit for purpose. No marking out, no knifing......

Absolutely, Brett - you won't get any argument fom me. I make these sorts of parts with whatever works quickest, and if there are multiple repeat cuts to make like you showed, a tablesaw or radial arm makes perfect sense to me. As for the hand sawn slots, they look pretty good to me.

I did think the initial cuts you showed were rather clean-edged. I thought you must've cleaned up to the scribe line with a chisel, which is fine for tenon shouldrs & the like, but maybe a bit OTT for a tool rack...

Cheers,

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