Thread: It a clamp not a cramp !!!

Well, you learn something new everyday (although lately I suspect I relearn some stuff I forgot along the way), and it's a wasted day if you don't learn something. Anyway I've always used "clamp" and "cramp" interchangeably and used "dog" instead of the above definition of "cramp". I'll try to use the correct terms from now on, but I'm not going to be obsessive about it or let it cramp my style....

Mick

Now you've sent me racing to my bookshelves!

I always thought Cramps were long cramps "Sash Cramps" "Floor Cramps" etc, but after minimal research I think that the two terms are pretty much interchangable. Here is what I found

Australian Methods of Building Construction W. Watson Sharp -1946. Reference; Masonry Joints (P29) "Cramps are also used to bind stones together. They may be either of metal run in lead, or of granite, slate or hard stone." This I think is in keeping with the definition above by Soundman, and is born out in "Mitchells Advanced Building Construction" which recommends they be built in Bronze for durability.

BUT

My favourite reference for all things construction, infact "Invaluable for those engaged or interested in the Building Industry on the Designing Practical or Commercial Sides": Pitman's Building Educator -1927

"Cramps - a good variety of cramps is a time saver to the joiner"

It has pictures (drawings) of T-Cramps (Sash Cramps), G-Cramps and descriptions of sizes etc with screws and some "with lever handles". Under the same heading a picture of a "Handscrew" or wooden cramp.

THEN
Bench Clamps
"The bench clamp or holdfast fixes the work to the bench while the joiner performs various tool operations" Pictures shows a holdfast with a screw lever.

SUMMARY.

I think the terms are interchangable. Definitely there are two kinds of "cramp" one is a fixed metal device (staple thing), the other a clamp owned by a person with an Asian Accent . Old blokes used to refer to "Cramps", and "Cramping Up"...I think I may start calling them all cramps, just to ensure this part of the language isn't lost at least for one more generation. (Subject to the outcome of the rest of this thread of course).

I suspect that the term "Cramp" is the original of Pommie origin, and Clamp was just another early Seppo corruption of the language the way it supposed to be spoke, but that is a bit of a harsh call!

Out of curiosity, where was "Blackie" located?

Must buy a scanner so I can copy some of this stuff!

Cheers,

P

The Maquarie Dictionary defines cramp as:

1. A small metal bar with bent ends, for holding together planks masonary, etc; a cramp iron
2. A portable frame or tool with a movable part which can be screwed up to hold things together; clamp

So, basically clamp and cramp can be used interchangeably. I've always called a clamp a clamp and I get cramps when I don't have enough salt in my diet.

Grunt

Etymology:

clamp (n.) - 1304, probably from clamb, orig. pt. of climb, or from M.Du. klampe, from W.Gmc. *klamp- "clamp, cleat." The verb is from 1677.

cramp (n.) - "muscle contraction," 1374, from O.Fr. crampe, from a Frank. word (cf. O.H.G. krapmhe "cramp, spasm," related to kramph "bent, crooked"). The same P.Gmc. root yielded M.Du. crampe, M.L.G. krampe, one of which gave Eng. cramp "a metal bar bent at both ends" (1503), which yielded a metaphoric sense (first recorded 1719) of "something that confines or hinders." Writer's cramp is first attested 1853.

I've always reserved the term 'cramp' for sash cramps - that's what my old man calls them. Everything else is a clamp.

Actually I think your all reading to much into this.

The problem started when Marco Polo was traveling through China and Marco asked one of the local crafstman to translate a Chinese woodworkng text into Engrish

Why would an Italian want an English translation?

Hi All
TTBOMK, the word "cramp" seems to be an English word used commonly amongst WW's over there. I prefer the use of "clamp" and do use it in WW communications (oral or written).

Though of English origin (Liverpool for the curious), the use of "cramp" to me seems odd. I do accept either term and uderstand then to mean the same thing.

BTW I refer to sash CLAMPS not sash cramps.

my $0.02 worth

I get the cramps in my two typing fingers talking to you bunch of misfits.


Al

I've got "The Australian Carpenter" by C. LLOYD (1949). He uses cramp exclusively, spells "vice" as "vyce" and refers to apprentices as "lads". I prefer clamp.

Originally Posted by Dan

"The Australian Carpenter by C. LLOYD (1949). He uses cramp exclusively, spells "vice" as "vyce" and refers to apprentices as "lads".

I suggest we ignore that one as the author is obviously politically challenged and can't spell

Dave

I looked in the index of all my older books for both "clamp" and "cramp". Besides one entry which referred to lead poured into grooves in masonry to hold stonework together there were no listings (and if you thought I was going to pore over every page in my quest for the correct term you're sadly mistaken ). The oldest book which was helpful was "A Dictionary of Building", By John S Scott, published by Penguin in 1964.
Clamp : A cramp in joinery
Cramp (1) or Clamp :A tool for squeezing together wood parts during gluing.
(2) A metal U shaped bar from six to twelve inches long which holds ashlars to each other......

So in 1964 in England the two terms were being used interchangeably, and as they appeared as such in a dictionary we can assume that the terms were being thus used for quite a while beforehand. At any rate I think most people will understand you when you use either term.

Mick

"I suspect that the term "Cramp" is the original of Pommie origin, and Clamp was just another early Seppo corruption of the language the way it supposed to be spoke, but that is a bit of a harsh call!"

Don't have anything to add to the clamps versus cramps issue (here in the States we use clamps) but I never knew the origin of the word 'Pommie' and I guess I can add 'Seppo' to that list as well. Forgive me for going off thread a little but No one has been able to enlighten me on the term. Even asked my lone Welsh friend. I had to join this forum just to ask. Help a Yank out if you will.

Greg

[QUOTE=Greg Mann
Don't have anything to add to the clamps versus cramps issue (here in the States we use clamps) but I never knew the origin of the word 'Pommie' and I guess I can add 'Seppo' to that list as well. Forgive me for going off thread a little but No one has been able to enlighten me on the term. Even asked my lone Welsh friend. I had to join this forum just to ask. Help a Yank out if you will.

Greg[/QUOTE]



Well, he asked! Who's going to tell him?

I vote for Al - all those in favour say: "Aye"

:eek:

Hey, Driver, now I'm really curious. Is it good I'm 10,000 miles away (or is it 16,000 km for you guys?)? While your voting, please remember I'll be sleeping. Or at least trying to in anticipation of enlightenment. Thanks for taking up the task, I think.

Greg