Thread: The cost of a good tenon

Chook,
You will never convert the Festool mob but I agree with you. A few good saws and chisels and the rest is up to you.
Regards
John

So I'm not the only one who reads my Carbatec catalogue whilst in the "office".

All the best with your time off & hear hear to the Poms getting a thrashing.

Originally Posted by Ozziespur

So I'm not the only one who reads my Carbatec catalogue whilst in the "office".

All the best with your time off & hear hear to the Poms getting a thrashing.

WHAT Carbatec still have a catalogue I have not had one for about a year now & there communication is up S#*! Creek without a paddle.
That was my last lot of fun trying to order with them

Well Chook, you are mostly preaching to the converted, in this section of the Forum, though I suspect there are a few like me who don't hesitate to use machines to do the grunt work, and switch to the more "contemplative" hand tools for the fine fitting. Having just sawed off 88 tenon cheeks a couple of days ago for the baby's cot I'm making, I can see why you might like some mechanical help if you had to do that sort of thing day in & day out. But given the total number of tenons I would cut in any given year, I would find it hard to justify a couple of thousand $$s for a heap of screaming machinery that might save me an hour or two (or maybe nothing, if you include set-up time!). I did use my hollow-chisel mortise to dig out the many small mortises required for the side slats, though. That is one machine I find it hard not to like! It's super-easy to set up, does a very satisfactory job in a fraction of the time it takes to chop them by hand, and it's quiet.

So much depends on what I'm in the shed for - if it's to whip up some utilitarian thing to keep the dog off the street, it's probably power tools all the way, for me, but if I'm there in my own time, with whole luverly days & no other commitments ahead of me, I turn up the music & reach for the potato-powered tools. I reckon if I'm making something that is meant to last a few generations, there is definitely no rush! ......

Cheers,

Originally Posted by dan.001

WHAT Carbatec still have a catalogue I have not had one for about a year now & there communication is up S#*! Creek without a paddle.

Yep they sure do, I think they've produced about three this year (price increases) and can be downloaded online. So now you have no excusses.

Originally Posted by orraloon

Chook,
You will never convert the Festool mob but I agree with you. A few good saws and chisels and the rest is up to you.
Regards
John

I agree too.

btw. I found an excellent movie on superfast and easy way of cutting tenons by hand.

A method to easily make tenon.

This block makes me feel small.

Originally Posted by gms002a

...btw. I found an excellent movie on superfast and easy way of cutting tenons by hand.

A method to easily make tenon. ...

Umm, wouldn't it be even faster, to chuck away the magnet, clamps, & silicone spray, and simply saw to the scribe line? That saw looks a bit painful to me, too - a decent saw should eat that bit of softwood in about 4 strokes.

There've been discussions before, about how much we should use 'training wheels' when starting out. Sawing straight, clean lines, right on the scribe-line, takes a bit of practice (& a decent saw!) to achieve reliably, so if you are only making one thing with tenons, & the aim is to get it done as quickly & reliably as you can, then jigs & aids make some sense to me. But if this is your hobby & the idea is to have fun, I reckon it's far more satisfying in the long run to acquire simple, basic skills, and the quickest route to proficiency is practice. If you are doing this for fun, speed & efficiency are not really your main concerns, surely, isn't it all about satisfaction?

I guess no one wants to make a mess of a job, but I think we have to accept that first attempts are rarely perfect, and mistakes can often be worked around. I had a stern reminder of this myself, recently, when I said I was envious of people who can make beautiful musical instruments. I was told, quite rightly, that the only way to do it was to start. The first wouldn't be perfect, but the next one should be better. Touche!

Originally Posted by rod1949

Yep they sure do, I think they've produced about three this year (price increases) and can be downloaded online. So now you have no excusses.

No way. He definitely wants it on their paper, not his !

Originally Posted by IanW

Umm, wouldn't it be even faster, to chuck away the magnet, clamps, & silicone spray, and simply saw to the scribe line? That saw looks a bit painful to me, too - a decent saw should eat that bit of softwood in about 4 strokes.

There've been discussions before, about how much we should use 'training wheels' when starting out. Sawing straight, clean lines, right on the scribe-line, takes a bit of practice (& a decent saw!) to achieve reliably, so if you are only making one thing with tenons, & the aim is to get it done as quickly & reliably as you can, then jigs & aids make some sense to me. But if this is your hobby & the idea is to have fun, I reckon it's far more satisfying in the long run to acquire simple, basic skills, and the quickest route to proficiency is practice. If you are doing this for fun, speed & efficiency are not really your main concerns, surely, isn't it all about satisfaction?

I guess no one wants to make a mess of a job, but I think we have to accept that first attempts are rarely perfect, and mistakes can often be worked around. I had a stern reminder of this myself, recently, when I said I was envious of people who can make beautiful musical instruments. I was told, quite rightly, that the only way to do it was to start. The first wouldn't be perfect, but the next one should be better. Touche!

1. Tenons are good joints to start with. Some of the first pieces I made had the most horrible M&T joints imaginable but somehow I got the shoulders almost straight on the side you could see and the glue held the joint together. Once assembled nobody has ever guessed what a mess lay hidden inside the top of the leg.

2. Good saws are the thing. I just started using Veritas carcass saws and dovetail saws in the last year, after fighting with poor quality saws for nearly 20 years. (A fight I won by the way.) On Saturday I got my hands on the 14 TPI dovetail saw. I cuts clean as a whistle, fast, straight and easy. I had read that some people found it hard to start but I have not experienced this. When it is my hands I become an expert. Same with tenons. I use a Veritas rip saw and cut to a knife line. Quick and easy. Yet when people start out they get some nasty piece of steel with an ungainly handle on it and then wonder why they cannot cut straight. (Personal experience) Or they conclude that using hand saws is some sort of mystical art.

3. But as much as I like hand tools I also like machinery, big noisy machinery and I have made it my business to collect as much of it as I can afford also. I do not see much sense in classifying yourself as a hand tool or machinery person. Better to say efficient or happy. And using my table saw is fun. Cutting mortices with a mortising machine is fun. So is knocking them out with a chisel. And is not that what the game is about for most people-fun. If we are making a living from our endeavours then other considerations come into play.