Thread: Old Counter Sinking stepped spade bit.

Don’t know of a specific name for them but remember them from 40-50 years ago, the particular ones I remember were designed for old wood screws where there was a large shank above the thread.

They are mentioned here and referred to as old-style flat steel piloted countersink bits
Countersinking: Choose the Right Woodworking Countersink Drill Bits

Thanks for the link

Flat steel piloted countersunk bits does seem to be a bit of mouthful for such a simple bit.

I have seen pipe making bits that I think are modified spade bits with rounded ends. The use of a flat pice of hardened steel for making specific shapes is handy as the are easy enough to shape with grinder / angle grinder.

They originally came with a collar with a spring-loaded catch that fit in the grooves up the shank (away from the tip), allowing you to countersink or counterbore the hole. Useful, as said above, for wood screws; might work well with some of the modern screws, too.

This is what Bill referred to.

Cheers,
Geoff.

You could buy several types of those "all in one" bits years ago, but they seem to have fallen out of favour along with "proper" wood screws. I bought a set of 3 or 4 sizes of bits for the most common screws I used about 40 years ago, trhinking they were a great idea. But they were a pita to set up - the drill bit was adjustable to suit the thread length of the screw & locked with a tiny grub screw, which had a habit od slipping after the second hole. I think they are still kicking about at the back of a drawer somewhere, but I haven't used them for 20 years or more, I just found it quicker to use two separate bits most of the time, one for the threadless part of the shank & one for the threaded part, judging the depths by eye.

There is a reason wood screws were made the way they once were - the thread should only engage in the 'lower' piece so the parts you are joining are pulled together, not driven apart as they can be using all-threads. But given that 95% of the screws on the racks in hardware stores are now all-thread & few bother to pre-drill, just whack 'em in with a battery drill, I guess such specialised bits have become quite redundant for the younger generations....

Cheers,

Lots of interesting info. T
hanks all

I have a die cast stop with a spring clip. It was on upside-down and I had not inferred its function from the glance over. Have tried the stop now and it works.
Sharpen and benchmarked against "smart bit" countersunk bit. In cutting speed there is nothing in it. Cut quality was similar.

Armed with a bit more info, rescanned the internet and found one supplier in the world of this style of bit https://www.eazypower.com/woodworking-catalog.php. You will see it if you scroll down a bit.

What was interesting was the the price on the bits. 1.11 USD at a retailer I found. 1/10 of the price of the cheapest countersunk bit at Bun..... And that without the stepped feature.

If you have ever done decking in say jarrah, it is pretty easy to go through a few bits -overheating them. I have snapped a few screws, trying to drive them into hard timbers. Will pay a bit more attention to providing a step Ian described in the future.

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Lots of interesting info. T
hanks all

I have a die cast stop with a spring clip. It was on upside-down and I had not inferred its function from the glance over. Have tried the stop now and it works.
Sharpen and benchmarked against "smart bit" countersunk bit. In cutting speed there is nothing in it. Cut quality was similar.

Armed with a bit more info, rescanned the internet and found one supplier in the world of this style of bit https://www.eazypower.com/woodworking-catalog.php. You will see it if you scroll down a bit.

What was interesting was the the price on the bits. 1.11 USD at a retailer I found. 1/10 of the price of the cheapest countersunk bit at Bun..... And that without the stepped feature.

If you have ever done decking in say jarrah, it is pretty easy to go through a few bits -overheating them. I have snapped a few screws, trying to drive them into hard timbers. Will pay a bit more attention to providing a step Ian described in the future.

Stanley used to make them dedicated to specific screw sizes; I have a couple kicking around in a drawer but rarely use them as proper screws are difficult to obtain.


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Probably the only place I can think of where you might still buy screws that need these bits is ships chandlers; they still have a market for proper shaped brass screws.

The generation before me were pretty careful about pre-drilling for screws, as Martin pointed out, it's not hard to shear a screw in hard woods. Even in the days before 18V 'lectric screw whizzers we had screwdriver bits for braces which can shear screws even more efficiently than a battery drill (damhik!).

But all sorts of things have changed in the last 50 years. Among them, the push for speed, the use of far more softwood and different ways of attaching wood to wood have all contributed to the rise of the 'all-thread' screw and the demise of the 'traditional' wood screw, methinks. It's a pity 'cos the traditional screw with its tapered & 'bare' upper shank has its place, but the diminished market means the chain hardware stores just don't find it worthwhile stocking them anymore. After we older dinosaurs go extinct, the next generation will only ever see them in very old stuff they are pulling apart & wonder at the 'weird' shape. That is, if they can find a blade bit amongst the Phillips, square, torx or hexagon bits in their kit to extract one....

Cheers,

Most chipboard/particleboard screws still have a smooth shank of sorts but they are not really tapered anymore. I ntentionally use the "all thread" sort for hinge screws, they hold much better and the underside of the countersunk head is smooth, so seats better.

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

...... I intentionally use the "all thread" sort for hinge screws, they hold much better and the underside of the countersunk head is smooth, so seats better....

MA, horses for courses - I think that's a situation where a full-threaded shank is fine. There is a clearance-hole in the hinge & the thread doesn't bite in it, so no problem. It's joining one thick piece to another without pre-drilling a clearance hole that can cause trouble. Just banging in an all-thread can drive the two pieces apart slightly as the screw enters the bottom piece & starts a new hole. This can create a small gap that doesn't get taken up before the screw beds in the top piece. You're experienced enough to know when this is likely & when it matters, I'm sure, but many aren't...

Cheers,

And don't worry, no hinge screws go in my doors without pre drilling. As to the pushing apart, when I'm using "structural" screws, I drive them in until things separate, back them out and drive them home. What I hate are the pre hung doors with their screws that would be lucky if they are 16mm long.