Thread: Cutting Gauge or Marking Gauge ???

Originally Posted by IanW

Dammit - that's very close to one of the ways I was thinking of - there's no originality in me at all!

How dastardly! He copied your idea before you made the prototype....

The idea I had was to drill a single hole in the cutter, which would sit in a rebate in a brass tip (to prevent it skewing under pressure). My cutter would be a bit thicker, like the Japanese one, and I'd use a counter-sunk screw (looks like a round head in the pics of the Hamiltons), to keep everything flush with the end of the beam.

I like your idea to counteract the torque pressures. Also saw one during my web-surfing for ideas which was similar but with a slightly wider arm which had a second brass screw in the end of the arm at the bottom of the blunt side of the blade to resist twisting. Screw would be easier, but your brass strip would look sexier and also be a pressure plate for the locking knurled bolt.

Haven't come across this brand before - they look like the progeny of a Colen Clenton mated with an IanW gauge...

Cheers,

Never debate pedigree in polite company. More dangerous than politics and religion.



Fair Wind

Graeme

Originally Posted by IanW

- like the knife of a purfling cutter....

Originally Posted by pmcgee;

... noooo ... that's it ... he's makin' this stuff up....

I thought so too, and purfling is not in the 2654 page "Shorter Oxford Dictionary". After Derek's response I loooked it up in the full 12 volume "Oxford Dictionary" and purfling is defined and it was first used in 1388 when it was spelled (no spelt then) perfulyng.

I suspect that Ian, you and Derek were the second, third and fourth people to use this word!


Fair Winds

Graeme

Originally Posted by derekcohen

More like a copy of Chris Vesper.

Yup - senility strikes again, I was getting my makers mixed up.

I have seen that slotted beam idea before, & wonder how the beam is kept at right angles to the stock. Is there a spigot behind the locking screw (can't see anything in the pics)? Or do you just try to hold it square when you lock it.

Agree that having the locking screw on top makes it a bit easier. Having a firm but smooth fit to beam & stock is even better (i.e. so it stays put while you twitch the screw up).

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

How dastardly! He copied your idea before you made the prototype....

Some people just have no scruples at all...

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

...Never debate pedigree in polite company. More dangerous than politics and religion.

Particularly when you ascribe parentage to the wrong person!

Cheers,

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

...... it was first used in 1388 when it was spelled (no spelt then) perfulyng.

I suspect that Ian, you and Derek were the second, third and fourth people to use this word!

Nooo Graeme - just visit any site where violin makers talk.....

Ian, it's a secret how it is kept square ...... (but between just you and I, it is a mortice ... Sshhhhhh ....).

One of my favourite methods of determining square comes from a Canadian friend, Chris Wong, who invented the Magic Square. This absolutely ensures that all your corners are perfectly square ...

Magic Square - YouTube

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

......One of my favourite methods of determining square comes from a Canadian friend, Chris Wong, who invented the Magic Square. This absolutely ensures that all your corners are perfectly square ...

Love it! He does it so deadpan....

Originally Posted by IanW

like the knife of a purfling cutter.

Originally Posted by pmcgee

... noooo ... that's it ... he's makin' this stuff up.

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

I thought so too, and purfling is not in the 2654 page "Shorter Oxford Dictionary". After Derek's response I loooked it up in the full 12 volume "Oxford Dictionary" and purfling is defined and it was first used in 1388 when it was spelled (no spelt then) perfulyng.

I suspect that Ian, you and Derek were the second, third and fourth people to use this word!


Fair Winds

Graeme

Hi Graeme

what edition of the Shorter Oxford do you have ??

"purfling" is the 4th word on page 1711 of mine with the usage dated to 1860
the word comes from the verb to "purfle"
the definition runs to 23 and a bit lines, and defines "purfling" as "the action of the verb"

Originally Posted by ian

"purfling" is the 4th word on page 1711 of mine with the usage dated to 1860

If mathematicians ran english departments, there would be a name for the class of words that have the same year of origin as their page in the SOD and/or OED

Originally Posted by pmcgee

If mathematicians ran english departments........

Please don't let the statisticians do the dictionary!!!
("It's a 20% chance that the word means x, and a 60% chance it means y and a 10% chance, etc.")

Hmmm, thinking about it, English is a statistical construct, much of the time........

Cheers,

Back to the Gauge concept ...

Derek, I have only used standard pin and cutting gauges ... think 1970s stuff.
With those, by rotating the tool I can have the bar resting on a timber and the fence against the edge so I should be at 90 degrees to the edge and parallel with the work. Then I can roll it back until the cutter/pin starts to mark.

Can you do the same with the japanese version? or is there another approach? or is it a case of learning to use it accurately?

Thanks,
Paul

[A way back (previous cutting gauge thread) I linked to a Popular Mechanics article in the ??60s?? for making your own tools ... their marking gauge had about 2" of beam past the pin.]

Hi Paul

In my opinion (only), no gauge should be used square on - it should be angled when cutting - and every pin should be ground into a knife.

Here is the best Stanley marking gauge ever made, the Stanley #65 (I do have one but this image comes off the internet) ..



The pin on mine is ground into a knife (it did not come standard that way from the factory). The pin is held in with a screw, and thus can be rotated according to the side you wish to use.

The other relevant factor here is that the stem is triangular in shape, as is the head so as to ensure that one draws the pin/knife at an angle.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

......- and every pin should be ground into a knife.....

Can't let that through to the keeper without comment! May I suggest, "if you like them that way..". There are quite a few situations where a nice pointy pin is very useful, to me, thankyou.

The triangular beam is a mixed blessing, it means you need a wear strip that encircles the beam if you wish to keep it both 'right' & 'left' handed. OTOH, you can use a very short pin/cutter, which some folks like. I've seen them filed to mere stubs (i.e. deliberately, not as a consequence of years of wear) because it makes them easy to push or pull without rolling the beam back & forth.

The method you described, Paul, is the way we were shown to use a gauge press the beam on the work, & roll it back till the pin makes the desired amount of contact, then push it away, so that the pin is trailing. Most of the problems I see folks have stem from holding the pin in a too upright position.

Cheers,

Can't let that through to the keeper without comment! May I suggest, "if you like them that way..". There are quite a few situations where a nice pointy pin is very useful, to me, thankyou.

I wouldn't have expected less, Ian!

The triangular beam is a mixed blessing, it means you need a wear strip that encircles the beam if you wish to keep it both 'right' & 'left' handed.

Hi Ian, the #65 has a brass wear strip on all sides. You can just see this in the posted picture.

The method you described, Paul, is the way we were shown to use a gauge press the beam on the work, & roll it back till the pin makes the desired amount of contact, then push it away, so that the pin is trailing. Most of the problems I see folks have stem from holding the pin in a too upright position.

The problem I (and others no doubt) have with a pin is that it is apt to tear the fibres when used across grain, even when used lightly. I would anticipate that this could be exacerbated when a pin is used upright (as the entry of a vertical pin into the fibres would cause greater resistance than a slanted knife).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

... the #65 has a brass wear strip on all sides. You can just see this in the posted picture

Yep, what I meant was, if I were to make one, I would need to either inlay a fussily-shaped wear strip, or cover the full face of the stock with brass, a la -hmm, what number Stanley gauge is it that had that? (Can't remember, even though I had one, years ago).

Originally Posted by derekcohen

... The problem I (and others no doubt) have with a pin is that it is apt to tear the fibres when used across grain, even when used lightly. I would anticipate that this could be exacerbated when a pin is used upright (as the entry of a vertical pin into the fibres would cause greater resistance than a slanted knife).

Indeed, I don't advocate using a pin gauge cross-grain! You can get away with it on a few woods, but I agree it's not the best practice. I like & use cutting gauges a lot, and if I had to have just one gauge, it would have to be a cutter, but I do like my pointy pins, when appropriate....

Cheers,