Thread: Cutting the mouth for an infill plane.

You can cut the and shape the sole first.
Lightwood has an excellent article on his build.
The relevant page is here:
http://www.petermcbride.com/planemaking/bench_rebate3.htm

Steve, you are a devil for punishment - 10 mm seems excessively thick for a sole plate! Most would be more like 6.4mm (3/16"), which is a lot easier to manage, in my view. Cutting the dovetails in 10mm stock will be double the chore, let alone peening and filing them all flush. A sole half that thickness should give more than enough stiffness - the "chatter block" riveted to the sole helps these planes achieve the solid blade bedding that gives them their solid feel.

Bear in mind that for BD planes like the one you linked to, the opening in the sole is the mouth gap you desire, plus the thickness of the blade, so you'll have quite a bit of space to work in if you are using a thick blade. (It's an entirely different matter with BU jobs like mitre planes, which is why they are usually made with a two-piece sole). There is still plenty of filing to be done, to be sure, but you should have heaps of room for a file once you get the bevel down a bit. On the one I made a few years ago, I drilled a series of holes, then connected them with a jeweller's saw. I started the bevel with a thin double-cut file, which soon got enough metal out of the way to allow a larger file in. I rough-formed the bevel on the chatter block before riveting it in place, then smoothed it out to match the sole once it was in place.

Cheers,

Originally Posted by stevebaby

I'm making an infill smoothing plane similar to this...Holtey Classic Handplanes - A13 Smoother Infill Plane. *
The sole will be 10 mm bright steel and I'm going to dovetail 6 mm brass To the sole for the cheeks. I need to cut a slot for the mouth, as narrow as possible, a fine mouth being important for the extremely fine shavings that these planes can produce. The slot will be 64 mm long X as narrow as I can get away with...1-2 mm (?)probably. Then I have to angle the slot to form a 50 degree bed for the blade.
These planes were traditionally made with hand tools and I intend to follow tradition as much as I can, but the only way I can think of to do this is by drilling a series of very narrow holes right through the 10 mm steel, then file to shape by hand. That's going to be a LOT of handwork!
Does anyone have a better way of doing this?

Steve,
the opening at the base will be close to 5.2mm for zero clearance with a blade 4mm thick. (I just did a quick scale drawing.) I would do that first then adjust the front of the throat later.
If you make the base in one piece, you will need to cut a hole and can get a hack saw in there, then files.

If you are a novice at filing, you will be an expert when you finish. I don't mind filing, there is a kind of meditative quality to it. ... but 10mm is twice as thick as it needs to be.

If traditional plane making is your goal, look to the traditional planes for a guide.
I'm at a complete loss to understand why you have chosen that material to make the plane.
There is a history to infill plane making that goes back to the Roman times, and thousands of planemakers over those years have refined the plane to what was made in the golden era of infill plane making.
I've not seen a dovetailed one with 10mm thick base material and 6mm thick sides.

Have you done a full size drawing of the plane you want to make?
It is critical step. It will help you actually see the relationship between the elements that make the plane.
The throat position, lever-cap pivot and and few other dimensions are critical. Small variations in one, without regard for another, can make real problems for yourself in the future.

Regards,
Peter
Plane making and restoring


throat_drawing.jpg

Thanks for reminding me Ian. I had quite forgotten that the mouth has to accomodate a 3/16" bevel down blade. On doing some very rough sketching I think 4-5 mm will be closer to the mark.

Hi Peter. I'm glad you've joined the thread. I've got a lot of information from your excellent site and admired your work very much.
Initially, I decided that since the weight of these planes contributes to their performance, more heft would be better. I bought the steel and brass online with no appreciation of just how heavy a piece of steel that size weighs. It might be time to reconsider the size of the sole, perhaps around 6 mm? I'd still like to use the 6 mm brass because I already have it, gbut the steel I have may be a useful anvil when it's time to start the peining of the dovetails. The other reason for buying that thickness steel was that the guy I bought it from (Offcuts Galore, ebay) didn't have a piece of steel with those dimensions (75 X 250) in 6 mm.
I take your point about a proper drawing...back to the drawing board...literally!

PS. What do you think of a stainless sole?

And because every thread needs piccies, this is the craftsman-made plane I picked up from the auction site, at a VERY good price.


The pic isn't that clear, but the mahogany infill came up nicely with some oil and wax.

1 thou shavings as bought. I'm flattening the blade and regrinding (on diamond stones) to 30 degrees. It still takes 1 thou shavings and I haven't finished sharpening with the waterstones. I'm impressed, and now I understand what all the fuss is about.

Originally Posted by stevebaby

PS. What do you think of a stainless sole?

Open an account for a bulk purchase of files!

I'm pretty certain all the current SS plane makers are using
machines.
Having a look at the plane above... See how the lever screw is a long way in and it points at an angle to the blade, not a right angle. Not ideal.
These depend on a few things including the location of the lever pivot, the blade-set thicknesses.
I have some drawings of various named infill planes that I will dig out and add here. Those, and the plane you have, will help you with your drawings.
Regards,
Peter

Originally Posted by lightwood

Open an account for a bulk purchase of files!

I'm pretty certain all the current SS plane makers are using
machines.
Having a look at the plane above... See how the lever screw is a long way in and it points at an angle to the blade, not a right angle. Not ideal.
These depend on a few things including the location of the lever pivot, the blade-set thicknesses.
I have some drawings of various named infill planes that I will dig out and add here. Those, and the plane you have, will help you with your drawings.
Regards,
Peter

Ok, no stainless!
The plane above looks to have been assembled from different planes. The cap iron doesn't match the blade...narrower by 1/8" but I've bought another. the blade is probably from another plane too. The lever cap was held in with 2 machine screw, 1 countersunk and 1 round head. Did I mention it only cost $100? It's a user, not a collectable though.
Drawings would be great. I'm trying to get an idea of how they're designed and made mostly from pics, which isn't ideal.

Peter, I share your caution about working with 'stainless steel'. Most SS I've struck is nasty stuff to try to do anything with, but I was given a couple of bits of scrap from a sheet that was bought to make some equipment that had to live in salt water. It is quite easy to hacksaw & file, though it does load files badly, worse than mild steel, so I have to clean the file every few strokes to keep it cutting cleanly. Something about it makes me think it would resent being peined, though I haven't actually tried to do so. I've made a few things from it, including a cap iron, which is functioning nicely. Unfortunately, I have only one small piece left, and have no idea where it was obtained, or what alloy it is (would you have any suggestions?). I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a little more of it, someday!

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Peter, I share your caution about working with 'stainless steel'. Most SS I've struck is nasty stuff to try to do anything with, but I was given a couple of bits of scrap from a sheet that was bought to make some equipment that had to live in salt water. It is quite easy to hacksaw & file, though it does load files badly, worse than mild steel, so I have to clean the file every few strokes to keep it cutting cleanly. Something about it makes me think it would resent being peined, though I haven't actually tried to do so. I've made a few things from it, including a cap iron, which is functioning nicely. Unfortunately, I have only one small piece left, and have no idea where it was obtained, or what alloy it is (would you have any suggestions?). I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a little more of it, someday!

Cheers,

Ian,
Don't know much about SS, might be worth asking on the metal workers forum.

Regards,
Peter

Originally Posted by stevebaby

Ok, no stainless!
The plane above looks to have been assembled from different planes. The cap iron doesn't match the blade...narrower by 1/8" but I've bought another. the blade is probably from another plane too. The lever cap was held in with 2 machine screw, 1 countersunk and 1 round head. Did I mention it only cost $100? It's a user, not a collectable though.
Drawings would be great. I'm trying to get an idea of how they're designed and made mostly from pics, which isn't ideal.

Steve,

here is a link to dimension drawing of an unhandled Spiers smoother with a 2 1/8 inch blade. The blade angle is 45 deg.
Spiers smoother
Lifting the blade angle, adding a handle, and changing the side profile are pretty easy to do.
Some of the modern makers don't use a back iron in a high angle smoother.
Are you going to use one?
I have a plane partly made without a space for a back iron. Not certain if it will be missed in use. You have motivated me to get back onto it....thanks
It has sides screwed on to a base. If you are stuck on the 10mm base, there is plenty of room to drill and tap threads into it. countersunk 5mm screws will fit easily!
That way you could cut the base in to two pieces and that would make the throat a doddle. Do a final fit, with the ability to take it out and put it back a few times before a final tighten up on the screws.
6mm thick sides would give plenty of rigidity, without the need to have a single piece base. Like the rebate plane linked to by hiroller above.

I have some more drawings, but they are still packed away after moving house a few months ago.

Regards,
Peter

I've had an offer to machine the throat and mouth out, including the 50 degree angle that I wanted. So it looks like it's a goer. I'll still cut and pein the dovetails by hand, maybe with the assistance of an angle grinder.
I found this while browsing. Stephen Thomas uses a really massive sole...5/8"!
Here's the link, the sole size is mentioned on page 3.
The Return of the "Loopy" Infill Plane by Chris Schwarz

The cap iron is interesting to me. The cap iron on my infill has the same feature i.e a small strip of steel is fixed to the back of the cap iron and then it's tapped to recieve the screw. Unfortunately it's a 2" cap iron and the blade is 2 1/8 so I'm replacing it with one that fits.

Steve, Thomas's plane is done with a milling machine, and it needs a very thick sole to fit those loops. A rather excessive way to form a bunch of rivets, imo. If, as the article says, it was originally intended as a 'joke' and a completely OTT response to infillomania, the point was amply made! I'm not sure I'd like to push that thing around all day - it's no light-weight.

The little 'boss' you describe is typical on older cap irons. No idea why they felt it was necessary to do it that way, but I guess they had their reasons.....
Cheers,

Well, it might have started as a joke, but it ended with what appears to be a superb tool. The weight won't bother me. It's not like I'll be using it all day to make a living....thankfully! I stacked up some of the parts for this on the scales, and it's a bit heavier than the L/V LA jack but not enough to bother me.
Someone has generously offered to machine the mouth and bed which is a huge help, but I'll still cut and file the dovetails by hand. I'm in no hurry to finish it. I sorta plan to have it by Christmas. I've made up a filing bench using an Ikea step stool as a base with a bench vice and a drill press vice on it. It's quite comfortable to sit and file away.
The next thing I have to do is find the wood for the infill so I'll be paying a visit to Trend Timbers to see what they have. At the moment I don't have any firm ideas, although I do like American hard maple. I made a box out of birdseye maple a few years ago which turned out well, but I also like the idea of an Aussie hardwood and that's probably the way I'll go.