Thread: D2 Plane Blades - Batch Order 02

Kevjed, the non cutting part is 80 mm, the toothed length is from 145 mm for the angled floats to 155 mm for the bed float.

I am using a 60º rake angle for the teeth as my triangular file is an equilateral triangle in cross section.

Toolin around just used standard brass rivets nothing fancy I think. Have you tried Coventry Fasteners they should have them. I however wondering what diameter the rivets need to be.

I did a test cut, using a 3 mm spacing, however this has made the tip very thin only a mm left, fear it may break off. I am thinking of making a 2 mm spacing this will make the depth of the tooth shallower but it means a slower cutting floats but should give a finer finish. Or so I think much like a handsaw, I think in principle. The test tooth cuts very nice just like a saw.

This thing with making tools gives me a real buzz.

Originally Posted by thumbsucker

We have 1,090 mm of the 6 x 6 mm left and 2,350 mm of the 12 x 4 mm left.

Pops I have given you an extra 300 mm of the 6 x 6, as well.

If you took part in batch 01 you are welcome to have a share of the free brass, Groggy got some for himself, just now

Hi TS,

Thanks for that, 300mm will be just fine. Good man.

Sorry for late reply, PC has been giving me trouble, not to mention the street power lines blowing up twice yesterday.

Thanks again TS.
Cheers
Pops

Originally Posted by Pops

300mm will be just fine.

No Problem Pop

Tonight I made my first float.

It was more a mixed bag approach to filling the teeth, just trying different approaches, so the spacing is all over the place and the rake angle is hardly consistent. However I have learned a few things. Starting the tooth with saw cut as recommend by Norsewood smith is a pain. Like Toolin Around I found it easer to do the whole tooth with the file. The saw is to prone to jumping around and removes your layout lines.

Sorry the photos are not better - however regardless how it looks it cuts amazingly well, this is a tool were consistency is not critical and maybe a detriment. Forget messing around with sandpaper and all that jazz, plane makers floats were made for a reason and that is making planes. Just with these crude teeth I am able to get a very nice finish with very little work. No need to even do a good job with the chisel as long as your close the float will give a beautiful flat finish.

The tooth spacing is also interesting, when I used finer smaller teeth (2 mm every tooth) the finish the float gives is much finer and more controlled as the spacing of the teeth increased (3 mm plus) the coarser the finish and the more aggressive the cut. Much like a hand saw. I will try again tomorrow and make presentable float. SWMBO has suggested two sets of floats one coarse and one fine. but that maybe to much work for me.

Attachment 66357

Helmut

Could you remind me again of the dimensions for the float that you used (ie length, width and length of angled bit)?

jmk89,
https://www.woodworkforums.com/showpo...&postcount=122
just a few post above

Today, I sat down to have a real go at cutting a uniform and neat float.

Only to find that my file was completely useless after the work yesterday. The corners had completely been worn away, so that my rectangular file was closer to hexagonal file. Making it impossible to form the correct angle on teeth.

I am now reconsidering my options. If a single near new file was worm away by doing a single side float. I may have to consider another approach.

As a note it is much harder to get the kerf started when your file no longer has good sharp corner and filling the sides of floats is much harder then then edges.

Originally Posted by kevjed

jmk89,
https://www.woodworkforums.com/showpo...&postcount=122
just a few post above

Just to say... I didn't use standard brass rivets, I made them myself with what would be considered extra large heads. They had 1/2 heads and the male portion of the rivet had a 1/8 thick shaft. I used a hammer to peen them together and then sanded them flush. I was surprised at how much pull they had when I was snugging them up with the hammer.

Hi Toolin,
I assumed that you would have made the solid rivets your self. Turned up an interference fit 2 piece (male/female) brass rivet. Drilled and chamfered the handles/shaft and peened away. Followed by a good clean up and sand.
I think it was Thumbsuckers assumption that you used an off the shelf product. But we know better now.
Thanks.

Can you go into detail how the rivets were made, and why you did not use off the shelf parts.

This kind of metal working knowledge is something I know nothing about. The only information I have found on making your own rivets came from this page and he is talking about wire.

What size rivets is suggested for floats?

I will probably be using split nuts instead of rivets, that way they the float handles can be taken removed easily from the blade if needed. One of my tool making principles is to build tools so they can be taken apart as much and as easily as possible.

Norse Woodsmith has a page on how to make "poor boy split nuts", but I use a simpler/quicker method starting with small brass bolts. If anyone is interested I can post a how.

Originally Posted by BobL

If anyone is interested I can post a how.

Please do Bob

Originally Posted by thumbsucker

Please do Bob

Making slotted nuts and clear head bolts. There are a 1000 ways to do this. Norsewoodsmith makes his from various sizes of brass rod and either makes the bolt thread from scratch or uses brass all thread for the threaded bits. I have done this but you need to be able to silver solder the bolt head piece onto the threaded bit of the bolt - you can use Tin/Lead solder but it is not as strong and can look ordinary if not done right.

The method I use require full threaded length brass bolts. If the bolts are not fully threaded then I run a die down the bolt all the way to the bolt head.

1) Place the bolt thread in a (lathe or a) drill press leaving the head poking out and file/sand the head until it's round. Some bolt heads are also too thick so thin it off until it's about 1.5 - 2 mm.
Another way to round off the head is place the bolt in a hand held electric and start the drill and apply the head to a running belt sander or linisher. This method takes about 20 seconds to round the head
It's up to you as to the degree of squareness of the bolt head top and sides (ie shoulder curvature). If the head is to sit above the surface some rounding will feel better. If it is to sit flush with the surface you can leave it quite square.

2) screw a square headed nut all the way to the bolt and solder the square nut onto the bolt - Tin/lead solder is fine here as you do not see this side of the bolt. The nut is used to stop the round head of the bolt turning when tightening. The square nut does not need to be brass and should be the same size or slightly smaller than the bolt head. I find a 1.5 mm thin nut is all that is required - if you need to thin it off, lock it onto the end of the bolt and apply the top of the nut to a belt sander or grinding wheel.

3) Make the round slotted nuts by locking 3 or 4 nuts onto the threaded end of the bolt and use either of the methods described in 1). I find using a piece of all thread is easier to use since it fits in a DP or hand drill chuck easier than a bolt with a head.

4) Leave the rounded nut(s) locked onto the bolt or allthread and place it into a vice, hack saw the slot into the top nut.

5) When fitting the bolts, use a small chisel to cut a square insert into the wooden handle to fit the square nut. The bolt head itself can be flush or proud. In the case of the floats the head should probably be flush? so a recess for the bolt head and nuts is advisable.

6) cut the bolt 1 mm oversize and install the blade and tighten the bolts. Sand the excess bolt and top of the slotted flush.

7) take it all apart and sand and Buff every exposed bit to within a micron of its life:

8) reassemble and enchoy!

Simplifications.
a) don't touch the hex head and just cut a hex recess into the timber to hold the head - this means you can ignore steps 1) and 2)

b) cut a slot into the rounded bolt head - this means you can ignore step 2)

c) don't worry about rounding the brass nuts, just cut a slot into them - ignore step 3)

As BobL said,
1000 ways to do it.
http://www.northcoastknives.com/nort...ints_tips2.htm
and if you want a variation on Bobs screw together handles, very good way of doing it, then these corby nuts, or any variation you can get/make/acquire, will do the job
http://www.northcoastknives.com/nort..._Supplies2.htm

Originally Posted by thumbsucker

Can you go into detail how the rivets were made, and why you did not use off the shelf parts.

This kind of metal working knowledge is something I know nothing about. The only information I have found on making your own rivets came from this page and he is talking about wire.

What size rivets is suggested for floats?

Hi TS


If you're up to making the split nuts it would be a more versatile way of securing the handles and floats. You can turn all the parts on your wood lathe easily. The handle would need a to be a bit thicker though so I went with the rivets instead.

I didn't use off the shelf rivets as I don't think what I was looking for would be easily found if at all.

For the rivets all I did was mount some 1/2 inch brass rod in the lathe chuck and turn it using standard wood turning tools. I wanted the heads of the rivets to be wide so they would be less likely to loosen up with time. The head of the rivet was about 2 - 3mm thick and the shaft of the male part was about 4mm. The female end of the rivet was also about 2 - 3mm thick with a hole in the center that fit the male shaft snuggly (this is important). The shaft was a few mm longer than was needed when the rivets were "installed" into the handle then filed down so the shaft only protruded about 1mm or less. Then the whole job is placed on a heavy metal plate and a hammer is used to mushroom the shaft end. Since brass is very soft there's no need to hit it hard. As the the shaft is peened over it pulls the two rivets together with a great deal of force. It's also important that the holes drilled through the float fit snuggly around the shaft of the rivet - this keeps things from moving around later if things do loosen up. Once it's all snugged up the rivets are filled flush with the timber handle.

Some what brief and no pics but hopefully you'll get the idea.