Thread: Disston No. 17 with the oddest tooth pattern I have seen. Ice?

Hi,
I have a hand saw made of Brass which i thought
could of been used for cutting ice. Maybe made of Brass
so as not to rust.

Thanks Martin.

Stone cutting.
Masonry Handsaw - White Label from Danish Tool - YouTube
Regards
John

Masonry? This would be a new tooth shape in my experience. Even tungsten saws don't last very long in masonry. This tooth shape in carbon steel ...?

I have searched for masonry disston saws and have not found anything similar.

It occurred to me that it might possibly cut tile (clay) pipe used for drainage. I have not found confirmation.

The youtube video pointer suggested earlier shows a carbide tipped blade (with a somewhat standard tooth pattern) being used on cinder block. Carbon steel tooth versus masonry? That would seem to be a road to frustration.

I did stumble on this nice compilation of Disston information in a 25Mb pdf file. Previously unseen by me. Quite nice.
http://www.thisoldworkshop.com/attac...0manual001.pdf

I explored the unlikely possiblity it might be related to sugar cane (Disston family were pioneers in sugar cane in Florida.)
Disston made sugar cane machetes. Sugar cane is sometimes sold in bundles of long stalks (like a bundle of 8' long bamboo).
I have seen hay saws in our area which are supposed to work on cane. NOTHING like the tooth profile shown above.
36" Vintage Hand Scythe Sickle Sugar Cane Corn Hay Saw | #39414033

So ... still looking for ideas.

Looks like a Hebel saw to me

Mole-Rat

I would go with oraloon's suggestion. Perhaps not used so much for hard material like concrete, but sandstone or limestone. Disston used that metal handle held by two rivets for their utility type saws in commercial or semi commercial operations. They were typically either 30" or 36" long. They made a Docking saw and Mining saws (vitually th same as the Docking saw) as well as Ice saws. The handle hole was large so a gloved hand could be easily accommodated when used in cold climates.

Your saw dates from after 1955 as it sports the HK Porter name. HKP bought out Disston at that time. In fact as it has Danville also on it, we can probably say it was post 1961 as all the handsaw production was moved to that location and pre 1978 as Sandvik bought the name from HK Porter.

Regards
Paul

Not the same tooth pattern but cutting stone :

Limestone cutting the old way demonstrated - YouTube

Regards
Paul

Have you looked here? Disstonian Institute.com -- Online Reference of Disston Saws

Originally Posted by Bill Houghton

Have you looked here? Disstonian Institute.com -- Online Reference of Disston Saws

Bill

The Disstonian Institute is a superb reference tool, but is limited to hand saws and does not extend to the type of saw displayed above.

Regards
Paul

I emailed Erik von Sneidern (Disstonian Institute.com -- Online Reference of Disston Saws).

He kindly replied (quoting him):
"The saw appears in 1950's Disston catalogs and was called a utility speed saw. It is a type of mining saw, meant to cut timbers quickly with its large teeth with lots of room in the gullets. They were made 2 1/2 and 3 feet in length. The shorter saw retailed for $5 and the longer one $5.60. Your saw was made after the company was sold to HK Porter in 1955."


So, this is identified as "Utility Speed Saw". Timber cutting for mines.

Three cheers for Erik.

Thank you to Bushmiller for narrowing the date range.

Rusty saws still cut ice here, mostly for carving not so much for chilling anything.
If they can get out before the ice gets too thick, most everybody uses a chainsaw now.

Too many teeth for that one to be a good ice saw. Inuit ice and snow saws are half that.
I've started one, will be 2 tpi and skinny so it won't pack up.

A similar saw except for the handle:

Extremely Rare Disston Utility Speed Saw - Unique Tooth and Gullet Pattern | eBay

Regards
Paul

Paul,
Thank you. I am surprised anew at the depth of design variations of Disston saws.

The 'Utility Speed Saw' you pointed out is so very similar.

I am going to see if I can enhance the image to read the etching on your
ebay discovery.

Must be Disston collectors out there ... $500 for a used Disston hand saw.

Thank you again.

Robson,
You have created endless new questions for me (starting with where "here" is for you.)
Robson Valley British Columbia in the Rocky Mountain Trench! Yow!

Eight first nations:
Lheidli T’enneh First Nation, Simpcw First Nation, Lhtako Dene Nation, Canim Lake Indian Band, Xat’súll First Nation (Soda Creek), Shuswap First Nation, Okanagan First Nation, Tsilhqot’in.

Man, you live in a land of legends! Natives and the history of 1000 years ago in your area are the stuff of true legend.

Now I find myself insatiably curious about hand saws for ice and snow. Especially someone fabricating such a blade.
(You cannot use a chainsaw in the Minnesota Boundary Waters, which is as far North as my winter experience goes.)

Massive difference between the snow Inuits cut for creating shelters and cutting ice. I have seen Inuit snow knives (bone etc) in museums ... but not saws. I once caught a PBS show filmed on the sea ice off Iceland (I think). The native fisherman used a 6 foot (2m) tall chisel (metal tipped wood handle) to quickly (relative term) open a round hole in the sea ice for fishing ... some long (unspecified) distance out on the ice.

Looked roughly as effective as a hand powered ice auger. Sea ice will not be as structural as fresh water ice (a.f.a.i.k).

Without a chainsaw ... opening a hole in the ice with a saw would require an entry hole cut in the ice.
The idea of traditional saws used by Inuit has piqued my interest. (Inuit society was metal free.)

Forty five years ago I was on a snowmobile in the dark on a Minnesota lake. At high speed I passed a massive hole cut through the ice ... larger than an automobile. The bottom of the hole had frozen over ... with quite a drop to the bottom of the hole. Would have been a real surprise if I had been three feet to the side. Taught the young me to slow down. I still wonder how and why that hole got there. Wish I had tarried to inspect.

As a side note to my new exploration direction I ended up at
Snow knife - Wikipedia

Therein is a historical quotation from 1883 sourcing from your neighborhood (same time my family moved to Nebraska). The last line is a hoot. Absolutely the last line opens the ignorance of the observer in recognizing what he was observing. Never saw a careless or absenminded person that could survive in a hostile environment. Such a careless and absentmined person once found their feet in my armpits after they fell through the ice at -30 F in Minnesota. Native born to Minnesota ... but careless and absentminded son of a Rochester physician. He called that trip 'the ordeal'.

That article quotes "I have seen igloos built when the thermometer registered −70°F. At such temperatures the snow becomes almost stone-like in its compactness." I have only experienced -60F ... but the snow did not seem 'stone-like' ... and my experience is limited.

I would love to hear your experence on the validity of that description. And what you intend to do with your ice saw.

I have learned much from the offshoots of this thread.
Thank you all.

mole rat

I wouldn't have mentioned this, but as they say in courts (Hollywood versions), "seeing as how the opposition has introduced the evidence....."

This may be of some interest as my globe trotting son has produced a series of "adventures" videos of exploits above the Arctic Circle in Norway. One of them involved building, and living in, a Quinzee albeit only for a couple of days until he recognised his metabolism was rapidly declining in -36°C.

Surviving -34°C. in a snow cave / Quinzee - Bushcraft in extreme Norway - North & Beyond Ep. 5 - YouTube

Regards
Paul

PS: Somewhere in a catalogue I have seen pix of those utility saws and for the life of me I can't remember where, although I can visualise the line drawings. I am progressively dissecting my brain (shouldn't be a big task) to reveal the place.