Thread: Disston Backsaw

Looks like a great project. Is the back brass?

Yes it appears to be brass,has a slight golden hue to it , clean up will tell , oh yeah it was $10, for a good cause, Ross

WS

Your saw certainly looks as though it has brass back, which makes it a No.5. Rather ironically they were not common in the US where steel backs were preferred and many of these saws were destined for the Uk market, but also the Australian market where brass was the favoured material. In fact the Disstonian Institute makes mention of this.

That is an exceptionally good pick up of an old saw. The DI seemed to think the No.5 was phased out during WW2 as brass became more important for the war effort. It also fits in with Disston's Victory hand saws going to steel for the hardware during the same period, although that model was re-instituted after the war with brass again. Your saw is pre-1928.

I am not sure if your saw doctor friend will be interested in cleaning the plate, but if either you or he decide to do this, it should be done before sharpening. There is a very good chance that just by rubbing with wet and dry paper (should be done wet) it will come up bright and look twice the saw than if it is only sharpened. Take the handle and back off to do this properly or you will have "mascara" marks under the back and around the handle.

Regards
Paul

Hi And thanks Paul. spent a few hours cleaning up the two Disstons,, handles came off , the panel saw i hacksawed a slot in the button side on two nuts to stop the spinning, i tried several cleaning agents , all slight improvement, last was citric acid bath followed by course sandpaper sponge pad from bunnings, maybe i should have read closer and just used wet and dry. Handle on the tenon saw, metho only but for the panel saw, its a $10 saw, sanded and BLO. My saw doctor mate sharpened both, foley machine on the panel saw and hand filed the tenon saw, they are smooth cutting saws now. I went back to the same source , chose a Sandvick panel saw , ,another $10, handle is off and cleaning up, watched Paul Sellers video a couple of times and purchased a nicholson extra slim taper file at mitre 10, give it a go, thanks for your interest Ross

Hi WS. Nice work. I have found that clamping a piece of scrap wood and some sandpaper onto the the saw bolt head can help stop it spinning and allow you to undo the nut. Scrap of wood just needs to be long enough to off set the clamp to allow screwdriver access. Any scratching can be buffed out

Originally Posted by woodsurfer

Hi And thanks Paul. spent a few hours cleaning up the two Disstons,, handles came off , the panel saw i hacksawed a slot in the button side on two nuts to stop the spinning, i tried several cleaning agents , all slight improvement, last was citric acid bath followed by course sandpaper sponge pad from bunnings, maybe i should have read closer and just used wet and dry. Handle on the tenon saw, metho only but for the panel saw, its a $10 saw, sanded and BLO. My saw doctor mate sharpened both, foley machine on the panel saw and hand filed the tenon saw, they are smooth cutting saws now. I went back to the same source , chose a Sandvick panel saw , ,another $10, handle is off and cleaning up, watched Paul Sellers video a couple of times and purchased a nicholson extra slim taper file at mitre 10, give it a go, thanks for your interest Ross

FWIW, in my relatively short journey I have tried pretty much all of the chemicals and baths and electricity.

Bottom line is that none of them give the finish you dream of. Most of them dull the metal while taking away the rust so you have to polish the thing anyway.

In the end, I prefer to start with a razor scraper, sometimes lubricated with a penetrating oil if required. Then fine sandpaper. Even a soft Dremel sanding pad around the teeth.

Easier to polish when you're done makes up for the hand work of scraping the rust off.

Just my 5c worth. Here's one I finished earlier:


DSCN3453.jpg

Originally Posted by goodvibes

FWIW, in my relatively short journey I have tried pretty much all of the chemicals and baths and electricity.

Bottom line is that none of them give the finish you dream of. Most of them dull the metal while taking away the rust so you have to polish the thing anyway.

goodvibes

I agree. There is in fact a line of thinking suggesting that chemical techniques could change the metallurgy too. Electrolysis does get into all the pits, nooks and crannys, but it imparts a grey coating to the steel that I have found is impossible to remove with wet and dry paper. Citric acid tends to leave a yellow hue that is at best eerie and requires effort with W & D to remove: You may as well have started with W & D.

Machine methods, particularly circular such as flap discs or sanders, are the kiss of death as the resulting swirls are impossible to remove in any practical sense. Good old elbow grease is the best way and in the end is actually not that hard.

Regards
Paul

Yep, I'm also in the "W&D&elbowgrease" camp, forget the chemicals, just more mess to clean up & the results aren't as good...

Paul, you should've included some of your "restoration" efforts as proof of the puddin'. But if you are feeling shy, I'll do it for you. This is that lovely little panel saw I got from you, just after you'd exposed the etch:
Saw plate 4.jpg

And this is what it looks like after you'd worked on it (& after I'd fitted an appropriate handle ):
D20 11ppi rip.jpg

Not only is 95% of it shiny-bright, but you preserved a very readable etch. From what I've seen of chemical cleaning, the etch tends to suffer pretty badly.

I love that little saw & use it a lot for light ripping jobs (I made it a rip saw to complement the D-8 panel saw I already had). It has preserved all of its tension & has a great "feel" - this saw lives with me to the end......

Cheers,
Ian

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

goodvibes

I agree. There is in fact a line of thinking suggesting that chemical techniques could change the metallurgy too. Electrolysis does get into all the pits, nooks and crannys, but it imparts a grey coating to the steel that I have found is impossible to remove with wet and dry paper. Citric acid tends to leave a yellow hue that is at best eerie and requires effort with W & D to remove: You may as well have started with W & D.

Machine methods, particularly circular such as flap discs or sanders, are the kiss of death as the resulting swirls are impossible to remove in any practical sense. Good old elbow grease is the best way and in the end is actually not that hard.

Regards
Paul

One piece of heresy to add. I haven't restored a saw for a while because sadly neither my hands nor my eyesight are up to sharpening these days, and not being able to finish the job kind of takes away a lot of the fun. However. I have had very good results with axes and chisels using a randomly orbital sander with "spent" 240 grit discs that have been worn out another task - so you're almost polishing with cardboard. (This after taking everything the scraper can get off)

It would take a leap of faith to extend that idea to a saw plate, especially a rare one, but I suspect it would work equally well.

Right at the other end of the spectrum, I saw a documentary on a blacksmith in Europe who makes historically correct swords. He finishes entirely by hand starting with a heavy scraper and working through finer tools and stones before finishing with a piece of felt. Only ever stroking in one direction - it takes two to three MONTHS.

Ian

Thanks for the reminder on that saw. I had forgotten it. In fact the Disston 20 series (D20, D21, D22 & D23) is probably the most underated saw around and the D-23 in particular very commonly found. I think your saw was the D20. They were a high end saw with all the features of the other more revered models.

I have done a saw handle replacement method, but in fact I have been meaning to do a revised thread on restoration of a saw plate and handle as my process has evolved quite a bit since my first attempts. I have just not got around to it yet.

goodvibes.

If I did not have a headband magnifier I would be completely unable to sharpen saws. I wear my reading glasses and use the magnifier with a good light too. I find my hands go numb a little more quickly than I would really like when sharpening, but I persist.

I do distinguish between cleaning up a saw plate and more solid pieces of steel such as plane bodies and axe heads. The thin steel of a saw plate, which is usually not more than .039" is a very unforgiving material.

I do not have the patience of your swordsmith/blacksmith!

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

..... I wear my reading glasses and use the magnifier with a good light too....

Yep, I do the same. That's so I can see where the saw is, the actual filing I do by braille.......

We should do a saw treatise titled "The Mr. Magoo method for sharpening saws"....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Yep, I do the same. That's so I can see where the saw is, the actual filing I do by braille.......

We should do a saw treatise titled "The Mr. Magoo method for sharpening saws"....

Cheers,

Ian

I don't think you or I are at the "coke bottle" glasses stage just yet.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Ian

I don't think you or I are at the "coke bottle" glasses stage just yet. ...

Paul, my sight has gone to hell in a handbasket since late last year, so I'm actually only exaggerating a little! . I'm booked in for a lens replacement next Wednesday, starting with the worst eye. If all goes well, maybe I'll be back sharpening 32tpi saws by the end of August.......

Cheers

Originally Posted by IanW

Paul, my sight has gone to hell in a handbasket since late last year, so I'm actually only exaggerating a little! . I'm booked in for a lens replacement next Wednesday, starting with the worst eye. If all goes well, maybe I'll be back sharpening 32tpi saws by the end of August.......

Cheers

Coincidentally, I was discussing cataracts and the general degradation of eyesight with the onset of age with my optician on Tuesday when I went in for a sight test and new glasses. I am not at the age for replacement yet, but I hope your op goes well.

Regards
Paul