Thread: Dovetail saw

"we fear change."

Originally Posted by lewisa88

"we fear change."

"Way" - I'm with Lewisa88!

I take it a Madrone is a kind of hot-dog... like a Frankfurter. It looks like a novelty knife for splitting open hot-dog buns.

Bio-mechanically I'd say it's what a gents saw should have been from the beginning but! it's s push saw. Totally wrong for that style of handle. If it were a pull say I'd say it would be an extremely good saw.

I wonder if the blade is reversible?

It says the blade is replaceable, so maybe you could turn the blade around.

Is this saw a better design than our more traditional types that have served us well for 400 years? Could the handtool users of old got their work so wrong?

Do the starting ramps make up for poor tool handling skills? The saw looks very fine toothed. Couldn't be that hard to start even for a rank amateur like myself. Are the ramps then just a waste of good steel? Won't know until we try it.

Sounds like a few folks aren't overly impressed by the handle. What's wrong with it?

Top marks to Mr Drake for pushing the envelope.

Cheerio,
Virg

Originally Posted by Virgil

Sounds like a few folks are overly impressed by the handle. What's wrong with it?

I can't see anything wrong with it. It looks like a sausage, but a handle is a handle is a handle.

Interesting idea, I wonder how well it works?

The spine looks like the one from his two handed dovetail saw.

Regards
Ray

Without trying it, it's silly to critique it, but I'm going to anyway.....

The un-toothed bits aren't a bad idea (saw-plate is very cheap, Virg ) - though I agree a fine toothed saw should be easy enough to start without any trickery, unless the maker has opted for a very high rake angle to give it a very aggressive cut. Another way to achieve an easy start is to relax the rake of the leading teeth, so that they tend to skip less, but that requires hand-forming or a very sophisticated toothing machine.

Is the angled handle an attempt to make the grip angle a bit more like the traditional pistol grip? I don't get off on turned handles myself - a flattened 'pistol' grip has built-in reference, but a round, symetrical one doesn't. The pistol grip allows your wrist to be at a more 'natural' angle when holding the saw, in most operations from bench height up. However, that's purely preference, & I have no doubt there are many folks who can cut just as accurately or better with a knife handle...

As Virgil says - there's no reason the blade shouldn't be easily reversible, but again, I prefer to use push saws for any work needing to follow a line. It's not a huge problem, but the feathering you get with pull saws can be a nuisance. Pull saws are possibly more 'logical' than pushers, but after so many years of pushing saws & automatically working from the "good" side, I can't get along with them as well, except for special applications like my flush-cutting saw, or the ultra-slim keyhole saw I recently made.

My 2c,

Hi Ian,

The interesting comparison would be to compare this approach with the straight handled "gents saw".

By angling the handle down it would tend to bring the force applied more into line with the tooth line. I still don't think it's going to be as good as a traditional open handled dovetailed saw, which gives you good control of rotation as well as applying the force to the center of the tooth line.

I give Glen Drake full marks for trying something a little different, I think his two handled saw was a bit "too different" for most. Maybe this one will find a niche in the market.

I have a couple of his marking gages, and they are beautifully made and work extremely well, I suspect this would be similar high quality as well.

Regards
Ray

Originally Posted by RayG

By angling the handle down it would tend to bring the force applied more into line with the tooth line. I still don't think it's going to be as good as a traditional open handled dovetailed saw, which gives you good control of rotation as well as applying the force to the center of the tooth line.

Ray, I reckon that's part of the plan, at least. I have a plastic-handled pruning saw with a handle that looks a bit like that. It cuts on the pull stroke & the angled handle allows a grip that suits that action.....

With tools that have been around as long as saws, there's probably not much that can be done that hasn't already been tried. So full marks to anyone brave enough to rethink traditions, but it's a fraught exercise - some will be delighted at something that looks different, many (most?) will view it with suspicion.

Saws seem to be having something of a renaissance this last year or so - or am I just more aware since getting passionate about them myself?! Anyway, it's a good thing, and I enjoy seeing others muck about with handles, but even more, I would like to see more mucking about with tooth profiles & pitches to try & retrieve some of the art & wisdom lost when the hand-held circular saw moved into prime place.....

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Woodwould

I take it a Madrone is a kind of hot-dog... like a Frankfurter. It looks like a novelty knife for splitting open hot-dog buns.

Even if it isn't, it does come pre-steamed!

Where do you find all these Frank??


Cheers


Steve

It is actually a progressive pitch dovetail saw. The blank areas at the front and rear of the blade make it incredibly fast (due to no binding or catching of the teeth). The idea is to have a lot of momentum built up before the teeth actually begin cutting. I met Kevin Drake at a trade show last week, and ordered one on the spot. The "hot dog" shaped handle is a little odd for a push saw, but because of the easy start, you don't need the pistol grip. It also kind of forces you to let the saw do the work. Another benefit is that you don't have to turn your wrist to cut dovetails, you turn the saw. This keeps all the muscles in line from your shoulder movement to your hand without any awkwardness. And yes, the blade is removable, and Glen-Drake sells a crosscut version of the blade as well, only $29 each blade. Kevin also said that you can buy extra blades and send them to him as they get dull and he will sharpen them (for a fee) so you can have a rotation of "new" blades whenever you want them. I sharpen my own saws, but I thought that was kind of cool. You send the blade, but keep the saw.

Hope this helps!