Thread: Drawer design and drawer bottoms

Originally Posted by derekcohen

The use of slips is a decision that is essentially made for me as the side panels are 3/8" thick (the front and rear panels are 3/4") and a groove will weaken the structure.

I am also interested in what thickness others would use for the drawer bottom, keeping in mind the dimensions (noted above). I am using pine here and my plan is to dimension the bottom to around 5/8" (it is presently a nominal 3/4").

Hi Derek,

I use 10mm drawer sides and slips, usually, on solid timber work.

Regarding the thickness, I'd use 5 - 6mm solid timber with a BIG rider - I'd be putting a drawer muntin into the drawer as well. If you want to go thicker, just create a raised panel sort-of base, with the raised section pointing down, leaving 5-6mm to run into the slot in the slip.

Cheers,

eddie

Derek

The method described by Alan Marks is that taught at Sturt, but I have not heard or read it described as a ' French Bottom ' before.

Advantages of the method are that the sides can be kept nice & thin and the interior clean and without dust traps. I would aim to keep the bottom as thin as possible, as along with the thin sides, this will reduce the weight of the drawer and maximise the available space in the drawer. I assume this drawer will only contain very light items such as clothing or shoes, and since the bottom will be supported on three sides in a rebate, and at the back with screws, I would suggest maybe 5/16" or 1/4" thick, if you are concerned about the strength put in a central muntin to provide greater support.

You did not specify which type of pine, I have used Kauri ( agathis mantara ) which planes to a silky finish & looks & feels really nice with a very thin coat of shellac, BUT it can be a real cod, buckling like a demented banana, after machining.

Alan Peters says his book was not intended to be one on furniture making techniques, but he makes an exception on drawer construction & it would be worth reading before you commit.

Regards

Thanks Eddie.

Basil, the drawer front and back is Tassie Oak (as per the carcase), the sides are Kauri Pine (so nice to work after Jarrah and Tassie Oak!), and the drawer bottom is Radiata Pine.

I have planed down the bottom (since the picture above) to a smidgeon under 5/8" with the slips to be 5/8". I did experiment with a 1/4" Kauri Pine bottom, but it flexed too much for my liking. In the grand scheme of things, I'd rather lose about 1/8" headroom to increase ridgity. The drawer is for guests to store flat items such as shirts and perhaps a jumper. An internal height of about 7" should be fine. Your comments?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Basilg - gosh, a fellow Bundanonian. I'm at the Exeter end of Bundanoon myself

Know what you mean about Kauri. I'm not sure if its internal stresses in the timber, but I've had perfectly stable machined pieces go completely wonky when put through the tablesaw.

Poplar is good for this application if you can get it. Easy to work, light but hard, and fairly stable.

Regarding thickness, I favour at least 10mm stock, but (as eddie says) tapered down to about 5-6mm at the edges to fit the slot.

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Thanks Eddie.

Basil, the drawer front and back is Tassie Oak (as per the carcase), the sides are Kauri Pine (so nice to work after Jarrah and Tassie Oak!), and the drawer bottom is Radiata Pine.

I have planed down the bottom (since the picture above) to a smidgeon under 5/8" with the slips to be 5/8". I did experiment with a 1/4" Kauri Pine bottom, but it flexed too much for my liking. In the grand scheme of things, I'd rather lose about 1/8" headroom to increase ridgity. The drawer is for guests to store flat items such as shirts and perhaps a jumper. An internal height of about 7" should be fine. Your comments?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek

I must confess that I think Radiata was placed on this earth to be used for house frames and such.

You have already spent a fair amount of time on your project, which is looking very smart, & think it would look much nicer with a Kauri bottom or ( Tas Oak ) in the drawer. I can't really make a judgement on the flex in the panel you have made up, without it in my hand. If it were me I would make up a muntin & put in two half size panels. I agree that the space is not the real issue, but the aesthetic of the Radiata I would not find pleasing.
Aesthetics is very much and individual thing though, and one mans etc. etc.

I think it is nice to have a bit of Wow in a drawer, I recently finished off a kitchen cabinet with Tas Oak drawers and Blackwood top , the carcass is the usual melamined weetbix, but I spent time in lining & partitioning the top drawer with Tas Oak and one section has a knife block in red Cedar, now each time I open the drawer I have a little smile.

regards & have fun Derek

Basil & Brush

That has a familiar ring.

Did I hear you saying bad things about misbehaving Kauri at Sturt ?

I can only comment from a pre-Victorian perspective. I do know the Victorians came up with muntins and slips (quadrant showing in the drawer) because their new-found machines could produce drawers more efficiently that way. Slips always look to me like somebody stuffed up and made the bottom too short and then installed slips to support it rather than make a new bottom.

Anyway, Georgian dimensions:
Drawer sides: - Run-of-the-mill stuff was 3/8" thick. Some quality stuff was 5/16" or even 9/32" thick (though not for something the size of your drawer Derek).

Drawer bottoms: - Country furniture could have 3/8" or even 1/2" bottoms à la "kitchen"(?) style illustrated at the bottom of the first post, but quality stuff usually had 1/4" or 5/16" bottoms. Where thicker bottoms were required, they were fielded on the underside to fit in standard 1/4" grooves in the drawer sides - where grooves were used that is...
Some drawer sides were rebated at the bottom, sometimes leaving only a 1/16" 'veneer' on the outside. The drawers were assembled and runners glued into the remaining rebate and to the underside of the bottom. When done, the runners and (proud) sides were planed to a snug fit in the drawer openings.

I prefer the latter. If the runners are selected from slightly softer material than the guides in the carcass, and animal glue is used to attach them, then in one to two hundred years, somebody can easily remove the worn runners and replace them.

Unrelated, Derek, but I fear when finally installed in the opening, your drawer will look like it's been cut down in size to fit the opening. Run-out beading always draws the eye to the side without beading which looks unfinished (or cut off).
Beading around drawers is normally applied (cockbeading). Perhaps you could cockbead the drawer ends to balance the visual effect? Or not, it's your cupboard!

Basilg - no, the Kauri I'm talking about was from The Woodage. I've done a few evening courses etc at Sturt, but none of the extended courses.

Can I ask where you procure your timber from in this area? I haven't had much luck with The Woodage, as they don't seem very well set up for smaller (!) buyers. A lot of their timber seems to have been stored for extended periods too, so it can be hard to find reasonably straight boards without too many defects. I've had better luck with Southern Trade Supplies in Moss Vale, and have even resorted to trundling up the freeway to Yates in Campbelltown.

I was reading a book by Robert Ingham a while ago, and apparently he often incorporates a runner into the central muntin in the bottom of the drawer. He reckons it makes the drawer action more stable than just having runners on the sides. Obviously the corresponding part of the runner is a piece inserted from the front of the frame to the back, with a raised ridge to form the runner itself.

Derek

I must confess that I think Radiata was placed on this earth to be used for house frames and such.

You have already spent a fair amount of time on your project, which is looking very smart, & think it would look much nicer with a Kauri bottom or ( Tas Oak ) in the drawer.

Basil, what can I say ... you have convinced me! I found another Kauri rough sawn board, planed it down, and resawed it ... just enough for the drawer bottom.

Run-out beading always draws the eye to the side without beading which looks unfinished (or cut off).

WW, thanks for the comments. I appreciate your expeience here.

I am aiming for a 3/8" thick bottom panel. I will use slips here (I have done so before and it will look like a molding, not an add-on).

With regard the beading/cock beading - I think that you are right here, but the drawer beads are in response to my wife (I did a set of drawers several years ago this way in her favourite desk, and she's been at me to do it again). There is no answer to that logic ... however I shall cockbead them if they end up looking strange.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Mr Brush

Regrettably there is a bit of a dearth of wood suppliers in our area & I don't think there is anyone that stocks a large range of species. Have you tried Allwood in Nowra?

Otherwise there is Anagote, Trend & Matthews up in Sydney.

Regards

Hi Derek,
As a newbie I cannot really add much of a comment other than I think the armoire is looking great.

I take it from your comment that the Kaurie Pine is much softer than Jarrah etc to work hand tools with? What does it look like when finished, would you consider using it as the main timber for a project or only for drawer sides etc?

Thanks

Mark

Derek

Good plan, it will also give you the option of planing down the thickness if you find the panel is as substantial as I suspect it will be. Alternatively try that 1/4" Tas Oak and you will then have this info for future reference.

Regards

What a brilliant thread!! I am so appreciating this discussion and Derek's WIP photos!

How are slips normally attached to the drawer side? Just glue? is there enough strength in that join to house the bottom and hold the contents of the drawer as well?

This is an area of doubt for me, how can a 10 mm drawer side be strong enough with a slip, where it seems to be that the slip is the point where all the pressure lands from the drawer contents?

Cheers
Wendy

Originally Posted by eddie the eagle

Hi Derek,

I use 10mm drawer sides and slips, usually, on solid timber work.

Regarding the thickness, I'd use 5 - 6mm solid timber with a BIG rider - I'd be putting a drawer muntin into the drawer as well. If you want to go thicker, just create a raised panel sort-of base, with the raised section pointing down, leaving 5-6mm to run into the slot in the slip.

Cheers,

eddie

Sound advice from Eddie. I would add thinner drawer sides conserve timber and make precision joinery much easier. Also, drawer bottom repair is going to be paying work for someone 100 years down the track.

Cheers, Bill