Thread: Electrolysis danger!!!!

Originally Posted by haosiliu235

it's alkaline battery...lol

Nope, that won't work, you need more amps.. Just get yourself an el-cheapo 4-6 amp battery charger.

Regards
Ray

would something like this http://www.autobarn.com.au/products/7/45/4019714\ work?

That should be ok, I notice they don't give a price on their web site, but try "Super Cheap" also Woolworths auto section and some Coles stores have an automotive section as well. Look for 4 amps or better.

Avoid the plug pack "trickle charger types" they are usually only 1 amp or less.

Don't forget, that this isn't a wood working expense, you will need a battery charger one day
when your car battery goes flat! Should be easy to justify...

Regards
Ray

I should note, that the higher the current the quicker the process, a lower current will just take longer..

You won't really be able to do it with anything less than a well charged car battery. Chargers for phones and drills won't put out enough current (and they often have monitoring circuitry so if the charger is not getting the right information back, it might simply switch off).

The object being cleaned is connected to the negative terminal; the positive terminal should if at all possible, be larger than the object being cleaned (you can use multiple anodes if needed).

Washing soda (sodium carbonate) is available in little bags from the laundry section of Coles/Woolworths food stores.

Current density - 10-15 amps per square foot at 3-12 volts is the 'industry' specification but I don't think you are going to get a variable voltage/current regulating power supply with that sort of grunt for anything under $200....so a cheap battery charger is the way to go (that Autobarn one looks the ticket - but if you get a 6/12 volt one, use the 6 volt setting).

In principle a dry cell batteries or small chargers will work but it will take hundreds or thousands of time longer than a regular car battery. By then the dry cells will have gone well and truly flat and the piece of rust you are trying to convert will have dissolved into sludge.

Most newish battery chargers - even the fast rate ones - won't work as they have sensing circuitry which requires they be connected to a battery before they will switch on. If anyone knows of brands that do work I'd be interested in knowing what they are.

Cheers

Most newish battery chargers - even the fast rate ones - won't work as they have sensing circuitry which requires they be connected to a battery before they will switch on.

so those normal car battery charger will not work...? It has become very very complicated!!!

I have noticed that Majorpanic uses the one from dicksmith ($60)

Originally Posted by BobL

In principle a dry cell batteries or small chargers will work but it will take hundreds or thousands of time longer than a regular car battery. By then the dry cells will have gone well and truly flat and the piece of rust you are trying to convert will have dissolved into sludge.

Most newish battery chargers - even the fast rate ones - won't work as they have sensing circuitry which requires they be connected to a battery before they will switch on. If anyone knows of brands that do work I'd be interested in knowing what they are.

Cheers

Hi Bob,

Can't see why auto-start circuitry would stop the process from working, maybe in an extreme case, with very little sodium carbonate in solution the resistance might be too high, but just adding a bit more would work. Can you point me to an example of a car battery charger that doesn't work and I'll investigate further.

Regards
Ray

Edit: The one I have is "MBC 80A" it has, Quoting: Fully Automatic (Auto On/Off Function) , Automatic Cut Off When Battery Charged, Reverse Polarity Protection, Short Circuit Protection... etc. etc. It works just fine for de-rusting.

Some thoughts however, too much current might be seen as a short circuit, and trip the short circuit protection, Too little current might be seen as a fully charged battery (terminal voltage too high) and trigger the auto shut off.

Either way, adjusting the amount of sodium carbonate in solution, should overcome that.

bought a $26 dollar batterycharger from auto barn just now....it seems to be working anyway they r on special so any1 looking for 1 ,,,quick get it!

Originally Posted by haosiliu235

despite the small dangers...I'll still go ahead tomorrow

I've done heaps of electrolysis with my bog standard Arlec battery charger, McKenzie baking soda and mild steel rods. I don't use stainless steel because of the fumes that are produced. I always place the bath near an open door to prevent the build up of gases. Never a problem. Common sense is all you need and some basic OH&S in the shed.

Originally Posted by Shedhand

I've done heaps of electrolysis with my bog standard Arlec battery charger, McKenzie baking soda and mild steel rods. I don't use stainless steel because of the fumes that are produced. I always place the bath near an open door to prevent the build up of gases. Never a problem. Common sense is all you need and some basic OH&S in the shed.

McKenzie's Baking Soda? Isn't that sodium bicarbonate? If that's really what you have been using,
you might like to try sodium carbonate, different stuff, they sell it in Bunnies in the pool chemical dept, labelled "Soda Ash"

Also, just to be clear, Stainless doesn't actually produce poisonous fumes, there is a tiny amount of hexavalent chromium that over time ends up in the electrolyte, and that's the nasty stuff, not fumes.

Regards
Ray

would using tin cans as cathode be dangerous? just wondering because I don't really have any scrap metal around the house but have a lot of tin cans and would not mind using them
btw my set up is removing rust pretty fast, however the areas that were previously rusted is in a black colour and the electrolysis is not really doing anything to the paint

Tin cans should work just fine - especially if you cut them apart and spread it out for a large surface. Or if it's a big tin you can use the tin as the container (just don't let the thing you are derusting touch it).

The carbonate/bicarb is just there to increase the conductivity of the water - you can also use caustic soda.

Originally Posted by Master Splinter

Tin cans should work just fine - especially if you cut them apart and spread it out for a large surface. Or if it's a big tin you can use the tin as the container (just don't let the thing you are derusting touch it).

The carbonate/bicarb is just there to increase the conductivity of the water - you can also use caustic soda.

Hi Master Splinter,

Only issue with caustic is it will dissolve aluminium, I don't think it attacks iron, I seem to remember caustic tanks at work that had iron valves and fittings, however it will probably wreck any paint (japanning etc). It is a pretty good paint stripper.

My understanding is, (probably wrong), that the solution needs to be alkaline, I would be interested if anyone knows if this is in fact the case or not? sodium bicarbonate, while it would be conductive, I think wouldn't be as alkaline as sodium carbonate.

I guess the bottom line is, if it works for you, keep at it.

Regards
Ray