Thread: Equipping my shop with Hand Tools

Originally Posted by Mooncabbage

Apparently steel reinforcing mesh makes a fantastic anode btw, as you can bend it to line your container with, allowing better LOS for the reaction. I'll have to get some to try it, I think Bunnings sells it fairly cheaply.

I don't know about "cheap". The best thing to use for an anode is carbon fibre cloth as it is not consumed and does not make anywhere near as much mess. Stainless steel also makes less mess but generates Hexavalent Chromium in solution which is very nasty. I've been using carbon welding rods but you need at least 4 to encircle the item.

Yeah, some kind of carbon anode would be fantastic. Can't think where I'd find any though. Even the basic carbon rods we used in HS chemistry are hard to find. I think a good setup for electrolysis is probably one of those things that'd be quite useful. Electro-plating, rust removal, etching... you can do all manner of things with it, much safer than acids too. Plus I have a lot of rusty things that need de-rusting.

I wonder if I can find carbon fibre cloth somehow....

EDIT: Yeesh, finding it isn't the tricky bit. That stuff is pricey. I wonder if I can find cheap off cuts then....

EDIT EDIT: What about carbon fibre tape? You could stick it around the edge of your container, and it seems like it's probably available in slightly more reasonable prices/sizes. I calculate I'd need about 4m of the 100mm wide unidirectional stuff, which is about $30 worth. It'd more or less cover the bottom and sides of my tub. My concern is more for how to make it conduct as one solid anode, so as to avoid having to run copper into the bath, where it tends to corrode pretty fast.

TRIPLE EDIT: Bought some cheap carbon fibre fabric from a hobby shop, mostly just because I thought it'd be fun to try. It was about $30 inc postage. Seems reasonable.

QUADRUPLE EDIT: Sharpened up my 6mm chisel with scary sharp. My spray glue is a bit ####, it's not exactly water proof. The paper keeps lifting at the edges. I tried using my sharpening guide, but it wouldn't hold the chisel properly unless I packed it out with 2 small pieces of plywood. Even then, it wasn't holding the chisel straight, so ultimately I abandoned it and sharpened by hand.

I noticed when I started trying to lap the back of the chisel that the back is ridiculously concave along it's length, about 0.25mm high in the middle. It cuts ok, but I'm really not happy with that amount of curve on the back of my chisel. Any suggestions for how to flatten it out?

Hmmm... So I found that all my squares were not so square. So, I took my try square, and I kept tapping it with a hammer until it was. It actually worked out pretty well, except I think it's gone un-square again. Either way, it's not in the best of condition, as rust has made it very difficult to read, and the metal bit is a tad bent (it was like that before the hammer).

Regardless, can I get some advice on buying some squares that are ACTUALLY square? Some way of measuring out other angles (45, 30, 25, 22.5, 11.25 etc.) would be great too. Because I already bought one combination square that's pretty useless. Thanks guys!

for angles - you can buy a protractor, then mark out some lines on a piece of board

or you can use maths to mark out the lines to produce the angles you want

Angle	A	B	C
45	10	10	14.14
30	10	17.32	20
25	10	21.45	23.66
22.5	10	24.14	26.13
11.25	10	50.27	51.26

Edit : made side A the same

Mooncabbage
I realise the thread has moved on a bit and you are now knee deep in electrolysis , busy restoring the ferrous parts of ancient tools.

However can I take you back to the subject of a bench (particularly the vice) and the issue of clamps? I have a couple of ideas you might like to consider, one of which I can air now but the other will have to wait until early next week.

It occurred to me that if you make a bench from a heavy old door and put a piece of ply or similar on top to give your level surface you could make a vice and a set of clamps along these lines:

New-Fangled Workbench, Revisited - Fine Woodworking Video

I made a bench based on this theme. The link is:

https://www.woodworkforums.com/f213/b...kbench-136565/

I am not suggesting you make the whole bench, but I am suggesting you look closely at the vice on the side of the bench. Make it from 600mm to 700mm 3/4" pipe and you have a set of clamps as well as an adjustable vice.

I have added a few extra pix to show the versatility. You don't have to have a removable top section of the bench as I do, although it does make life easier. My reason for the removable top as you will see in the links is to have access to the full length clamps.

It would require two 100mm x 50mm bearers under the door/bench to house the pipe and three or four cross pieces. The vice itself can be almost any width up to the length of your bench. For the cost of two pairs of pipe clamps you can have an adjustable vice and a pair of pipe clamps. (Most projects will require four sets )

workbench and clamps 008.jpgworkbench and clamps 001.jpgworkbench and clamps 002.jpgworkbench and clamps 003.jpgworkbench and clamps 004.jpgworkbench and clamps 005.jpgworkbench and clamps 006.jpgworkbench and clamps 007.jpg

Regards
Paul

Interesting suggestion! Actually, my electrolysis project has been sidelined, until my carbon fibre cloth arrives, on account of the water and everything else keeps gunking up with rust and I can't be bothered with constantly cleaning rusty sediment off my anodes. Also, since the nature of all my potential anodes require the lead to be submerged, the copper cable I use to connect it keeps eroding away. At the moment, I am back to being sensible, and trying to clean/organise the workshop area, as it's gone backwards since I got distracted.

Somewhat unrelatedly, I bought a Disston saw off eBay. Whether it's any good, I don't know, but I'm more interested in using it as a template for my own saws. I've discovered you can buy saw stock by Mike Wenzloff for extremely reasonable prices. I think I'd rather use the crappy saws I have now, have a crack at sharpening them, see how I find them, than splurge out on fancy ones. Then once I know better what I want and need, I can order a few pieces from Mr Wenzloff, and make my own saws to my exact specifications, for about the same price per unit as a Bunnies saw (not including the price of the timber handles, which I already have more than enough timber for).

Anyway, your suggestion has sort of inspired me. I was only looking at pipe clamp racks last night, and I'm 95% certain I have a thread cutter thingy for pipes, so then I just need some pipe clamps and some pipe! What I don't have, is an appropriate door, but I suspect I can make a door substitute from what I already have if I think about it. I'd rather not use jarrah if I can avoid it (too heavy and hard to work with, frankly), but maybe I could make a top out of edge-joined pine 2x4s or something? I'll think on it.

PS. Any suggestions on where to get pipe clamps etc? I've literally never even seen them IRL before, let alone used them. Talk about a learning curve.

EDIT: On closer inspection, and a bit of research it's actually a pipe cutter. Still might find a use for it. I also found not a door, but a door like item. It's a very thick piece of chipboard, with similarly thick chipboard on the bottom as a sort of frame. It's very sturdy, and it's been down there for god only knows how long, so it's in surprisingly good condition. Now I just have to work out if I can use it, as it's a little bit too short to go on top of my existing setup with the cupboards.

Originally Posted by Mooncabbage

Interesting suggestion! Actually, my electrolysis project has been sidelined, until my carbon fibre cloth arrives, on account of the water and everything else keeps gunking up with rust and I can't be bothered with constantly cleaning rusty sediment off my anodes. Also, since the nature of all my potential anodes require the lead to be submerged, the copper cable I use to connect it keeps eroding away. At the moment, I am back to being sensible, and trying to clean/organise the workshop area, as it's gone backwards since I got distracted.

Somewhat unrelatedly, I bought a Disston saw off eBay. Whether it's any good, I don't know, but I'm more interested in using it as a template for my own saws. I've discovered you can buy saw stock by Mike Wenzloff for extremely reasonable prices. I think I'd rather use the crappy saws I have now, have a crack at sharpening them, see how I find them, than splurge out on fancy ones. Then once I know better what I want and need, I can order a few pieces from Mr Wenzloff, and make my own saws to my exact specifications, for about the same price per unit as a Bunnies saw (not including the price of the timber handles, which I already have more than enough timber for).

Anyway, your suggestion has sort of inspired me. I was only looking at pipe clamp racks last night, and I'm 95% certain I have a thread cutter thingy for pipes, so then I just need some pipe clamps and some pipe! What I don't have, is an appropriate door, but I suspect I can make a door substitute from what I already have if I think about it. I'd rather not use jarrah if I can avoid it (too heavy and hard to work with, frankly), but maybe I could make a top out of edge-joined pine 2x4s or something? I'll think on it.

PS. Any suggestions on where to get pipe clamps etc? I've literally never even seen them IRL before, let alone used them. Talk about a learning curve.

EDIT: On closer inspection, and a bit of research it's actually a pipe cutter. Still might find a use for it. I also found not a door, but a door like item. It's a very thick piece of chipboard, with similarly thick chipboard on the bottom as a sort of frame. It's very sturdy, and it's been down there for god only knows how long, so it's in surprisingly good condition. Now I just have to work out if I can use it, as it's a little bit too short to go on top of my existing setup with the cupboards.

Mooncabbage

I know BobL made reference to the use of stainless steel as the sacrificial anode in the electrolysis process and highlighted the potential for generating nasty chromium hexavalents. However, in previous disussions on the forum we have concluded that if this is performed in a well ventilated area (I do this out in the open) the potential is not great in the limited quantities you are likely to be doing. We are obliged to point out hazzardous potential when we are aware of it.

The thick chipboard maybe the material that is used for kitchen benchtops (typically 32mm) and that is ideal. Also don't rule out using two sheets of chipboard or MDF (16mm or 18mm) glued together as this will come to the same result. You don't need clamps, just chipboard screws used from the underside and the screws can be removed later or left in as you wish. If you used contact cement you probably don't even need the screws.

Your local hardware store should have pipe clamps like these:

GLUEING PIPE CLAMP 3/4" 2 SETS - WOODWORKING VICE-NEW!! | eBay

I would comment that the price seems to have increased significantly since I purchased mine, but at least part of that listing includes postage. Just searching for pipeclamps brings up thousands of results. You have to add glueing or woodworking to narrow the field.

Regards
Paul

I'm pondering cutting down part of my bench to make that slab of chipboard fit as a worktop. I don't know as the dog would be impressed, she likes to snooze in the bit I'd be cutting off. I wonder if I could laminate together some of the 18mm ply I have lying around? I was planning on using it for other purposes, but I can always get more I suppose. It also occured to me if I put pipe clamps on that cabinet, under the worktop, it's going to make the top pretty damn high. So that'll have to be assessed also. I'm thinking I might try to remove the existing top (it's stuffed anyway), and maybe I can put some 2x4s on there to hold up the worktop, and receive the pipe clamps. So now I guess I need to know, just how big are these pipe clamps?

I should probably also consider the relative depth of the cabinets, as they are only 45cm wide. The top could be wider, but that would make getting to the cabinets and draws more difficult. That said, some kind of lip would allow me to use standard f-clamps and quick clamps.

Decisions decisions!

EDIT: Carbatec sell their own brand of pipe-clamps for $16 a piece. That seems pretty reasonable, on the whole. I've seen them more expensive on gumtree/ebay. Four of those is only going to set me back $64, which is pretty good for something so multi-purpose.

Originally Posted by Mooncabbage

EDIT: Carbatec sell their own brand of pipe-clamps for $16 a piece. That seems pretty reasonable, on the whole. I've seen them more expensive on gumtree/ebay. Four of those is only going to set me back $64, which is pretty good for something so multi-purpose.

McJing do them for $15.00

TT

I suspect I'll be at a Carbatec long before I'm even close to a McJing :P.

3/4" Pipe is like 19mm or so, so a 20mm hole should be ample. Then I just need some pine to put the holes in, and to assess how I want to do that exactly. 2x3 or even a 2x2 (1x2?) should be plenty, given 3-4 running lengthwise ~1.8m, and a few running across the shorter 0.6m dimension. 18mm Plywood on top, maybe on the bottom (not sure), attach it to my benchtop cabinet thingy on wheels, and I should be done and dusted :P

My only real concern frankly is the height of the thing. I can't easily lower the bench much (I could take the blocks the wheels are attached to off and attach them directly to the base, but that only gives me another 18mm or so), so I'm not sure what to do. Anyone know a sensible guideline for a good bench height? I was going for 90cm, only because it's the theoretical height of my triton workcentre.

Originally Posted by Mooncabbage

3/4" Pipe is like 19mm or so, so a 20mm hole should be ample.

With pipe the size refers to Nb (Nominal bore). 20mm Nb pipe OD is almost 27mm. You would need to drill in a piece of scrap to check, but the hole may need to be 28mm to be comfortably slotted into both holes. You can buy pipe already threaded on both ends in set sizes. 600mm would be one length. Probably 900mm would be the next size up. As you would only need a thread on one end you could consider a piece 1200, 1500 or 1800 long and cutting it in half. This may be a cheaper option.

Regards
Paul

What I'm thinking is two pieces of 18mm ply, for the top and bottom, with some framing pine in between. I figure I'll have holes along the long sides on the bottom half of the frame, thus allowing me to use short (60cm wide benchtop so ~90cm long) pipes at various places along the length as a sort of adjustable vice. With 4 pipe clamps, I should be able to clamp fairly wide, long things that way. Then in the short sides, I'll have say 3-4 holes in the top sides of framing timbers, running along the length of the bench, for longer pipes. I figure, if I drill holes in the top of the bench top, into the framing timber supports, spaced evenly along the top, I can stick offcuts of dowels or whatever in them, and use the long pipes to clamp wide boards against them. Ofcourse since the long pipes would be designed to slide under the short ones, I might get away with having some framing timbers above the long pipes, so I can set the dowels and the like directly above the pipes instead of having to offset them somehow.

Food for thought anyway.

Originally Posted by Mooncabbage

I suspect I'll be at a Carbatec long before I'm even close to a McJing :P.

3/4" Pipe is like 19mm or so, so a 20mm hole should be ample. Then I just need some pine to put the holes in, and to assess how I want to do that exactly. 2x3 or even a 2x2 (1x2?) should be plenty, given 3-4 running lengthwise ~1.8m, and a few running across the shorter 0.6m dimension. 18mm Plywood on top, maybe on the bottom (not sure), attach it to my benchtop cabinet thingy on wheels, and I should be done and dusted :P

My only real concern frankly is the height of the thing. I can't easily lower the bench much (I could take the blocks the wheels are attached to off and attach them directly to the base, but that only gives me another 18mm or so), so I'm not sure what to do. Anyone know a sensible guideline for a good bench height? I was going for 90cm, only because it's the theoretical height of my triton workcentre.

It depends what you do with the bench and chances are you will be doing a range of stuff. I also made mine 900 high but then drilled holes into and glued some 3/4" nuts into the bottom of the legs so that I could screw in some bolts and adjust the height. The bolts allowed for a final height range of 935 to about 985 mm. I found this still too high and ended taking off 50 mm so I had a range of 885 to 935. I think I have it currently set at 890mm.

I think, the top I'm looking at building is probably going to be something like 10cmish high, which is going to make the whole thing a lot taller than I really want it to be. I could of course take the wheels off, but then it'd be nearly impossible to move, which isn't really an option with my limited (and awkward) space. I'm thinking I'd have to use 75x45mm framing pine for the supports, between the two 18mm plywood boards, so that winds up looking like 11 extra cm. The total height of the cabinets sans wheels is only 77cm, and even if I remove the existing top to replace with the 18mm ply, that's pretty damn high.

I could get away with it being shorter, if I didn't allow for pipes to be run both ways at the same time, which would allow me to use 35mm framing timbers sandwiched between the two ply boards, which comes out at something like 7cm high, 5 if I remove the top, which is much more manageable.

The one problem I have with this plan, is it means the pipe clamps are basically clamping against the 18mm plywood top only, when I use them as a vice, which doesn't seem like enough. Your worktop is similar Bushmiller, how do you find it? Should I be using an extra thick top?