Thread: Equipping my shop with Hand Tools

You can never have too many tools. That being said I have a lot of tools that don't get a run very often. Depends what you are making. Try the markets for second hand tools. You may need a rip saw to be added to your list. You can pick up planes for about $20 at markets. You will need to sharpen what ever you buy so you will need a bench grinder. And some water stones. Even cheep tools will work if you keep them sharp. Lots of info on sharpening in the forum. Might be time to change your girl friend.

I'm not sure where I'd find that sort of market in Perth. The only markets I know of are the kind which is just hipster for shops. I do have crosscut saws and rip saws, including 3 circular saws. I don't really have room in my workshop for a bench grinder, even if I had the money spare. I'll have to do my sharpening on an oilstone or sandpaper and glass. Not really sure what kind of sandpaper is used for that, I'd have thought it'd be too rough, but what do I know.

Originally Posted by Mooncabbage

Obviously I no longer have ANY planes (), and they're not the cheapest item. I was planing on buying them one at a time, starting with a Block Plane. Problem is I'm not sure what to get. I don't want to get a hunk of junk that's good for nothing but scrap, but I can't afford a $400 plane either. So I could definitely use some advice in this department.

$400 planes are great, but if you can't afford them then old Stanleys or Records are better than new Stanleys or Records. I'd suggest you look for a No.4 for your smoother and a No.5 for your jack, as these are usually the cheapest (No.3 & No.4½ smooth planes usually cost more, as does the No.5½ jack). If there are no car-boot sales in your area (we don't have any here either) then you'll best watch fleabay.

You can sometimes tell an older plane (older = better QC when made) by the shape of the irons. Angular sides and flat top usually means pre ~1960, but irons can easily be changed between planes so that's not reliable. By 1960 QC was in rapid decline (that's not to say all post 1960 planes are rubbish, but the chances of picking up a bad one was increasing rapidly). The shape of the frog is an other indication - those with an ogee shape near the top are newer (post 1933 for Stanleys, and post 1959 for Records), so you want ones that are straight sided with a rounded top.

Once you've got your planes (and chisels etc) you need good sharpening gear. But that's a whole other story...

You can upgrade your planes with aftermarket irons - if necessary - but try them out first to see how they perform.

HTH.

Cheers, Vann.

Thanks for the advice. I think I'll probably use the glass & sandpaper trick for sharpening, since I already have the glass and sandpaper is cheap.

Now I really wish those planes hadn't been given away ><

The WoodRiver planes seem to get reasonable reviews and are a good price if you're looking new. Jim Davey has a starters kit for $470 (#4, #6 and LA Block). Professional Woodworkers Supplies also sell the WoodRiver planes.

Hello Mooncabbage - great name, brings to mind that Cat Stephen's song .................
Anyway, if you are off to Bunnings for chisels, have a look at these - if they still have any left. They were in the sales trolley when I saw them but cheap as chips. I paid $15 for this set - my son has them now.

DSC01066.jpg

I have tried them and they are good. There is a review here:

The Village Woodworker: Cheap Chinese Chisels - Good Value - Or Just Plain Junk?

You don't need many planes to start with, and they can grow with your woodworking as you need them.
Actually your list covers most of what you need. I did a Beginners Woodworking Kit exercise a little while back and came up with this:

The Village Woodworker: Beginning Woodworking - A Basic Woodworking Starter Kit

I won't list it all again, but you can follow the link.
Welcome to the adventure.
It is lots of fun, and you are on the right forum for getting help.
These blokes (and blokettes) are great.
Cheers
SG

Hi Mooncabbage,
The Hand Tool Preservation Society of WA holds an annual tool sale at the church hall, Washer street East Vic Park in April. Plenty of good user tools for sale there if you can hold out that long.
Also plenty of knowledgeable folk there, more than happy to talk tools with you.
Geoff

Mooncabbage, there have been many threads with advice to newbies, but I tried to find them and they didn't pop up for me, either. Where's PMcGee when we need him?

You will get lots of advice on what you need, but you need to be aware that ALL advice is biased by personal preferences and the sort of work people do themselves. There would not be two sets of tools in the country that are identical and even if two people started with identical sets, I gaurantee they would be quite different 10 years from now.

What you begin with is heavily dependant on budget, of course, but even more dependant on what you want to do. For example, if your main aim is fixing & making things to do with the house, you will want tools that aren't ideal for fine furniture making, and vice versa. The recommendation for a rebate plane in a list of tools for beginners strikes me as silly. You probably barely know what a rebate is, at this stage, let alone when you would want to use it, unless you intend starting with a raft of picture-frames.

I would not choose a block plane as my only plane, either (although I did, at age 12). A block plane is a very handy device, no doubt about it, and quite servicabe examples can be had for very little, but they are limited in what they can do. A medium-sized bench plane like a #5 would be a much better choice as your one & only, imo. It can work as a smoother, jointer & roughing-down plane, albeit not as conveniently as the dedicted planes usually associated with these activities, and is also a handy size for a shooting board. They aren't called 'jack' planes for nothing! To recycle the picture-frame example, a #5 could be all the plane you ever needed (it won't make rebates, but they can be handled in other ways) . But if you end up making lots of intricate furniture, you will end up with a goodly number of other planes, some essential, others just desirable.

My advice is always the same - plan a couple of projects, think about the tools that might be required and ask the panel for advice on what is essential & what is not. You will still get different answers, because there are many ways to skin the proverbial cat. If you already know how to go about it, think what minimum tool kit would be required to do the job, and what might be desirable, but not essential. Second-hand is the best way to go if you are patient, especially if you can get some competent help (join a local w'working group, and/or the hand tools preservationgroup). You can get a lot of excellent basic tools for the price of one fancy boutique plane if you are prepared to haunt the flea markets. Don't spend hours poring over tool catalogues at this stage of your career - it won't improve your woodworking skills but will create a desire for all sorts of things with lovely brass fittings that you don't need yet, if ever (DAMHIK!).

Sharpening is perhaps the most contentious issue on the Forum - everyone has a favoured method (which often changes over time!) and some folks are convinced theirs is best. Keep in mind that a cutting edge is just the junction between two planes. The cleaner the surfaces and the more acutely the two planes meet, the 'sharper' the edge, but in practice, there has to be trade-offs due to the nature of metal and the size of cutting particles, which determine how long it takes to get anywhere. Edge angles of less than about 25 degrees, while theoretically desirable, are generally impractical, so there is a limit to how 'sharp' any tool can get. There are numerous ways to remove unwanted metal, and a search of these pages & the wider web will inundate you with more information than you will ever need. Having tools sharp enough to do the job is THE big 'secret' to working happily & well with hand tools, so choose a method that appeals to you, and stick with it for as long as it takes to consistently achieve a tolerable edge on your tools. Down the track, you will almost certainly modify & improve your sharpening techniques.

And finally, while we assume anyone who posts here is keen on hand tools that don't plug into a power outlet, a couple of tailed or cordless tools is handy-bordering-on-essential around any shed, unless you are a purist or a masoschist, so don't forget a couple of those will be required (someone already mentioned a grinder of some sort).

Welcome to the scrum.....
Cheers,

I hate to admit the guy in the video is right. It is possable to get by with a basic set of tools. For someone starting that is where you begin. I still remember the days of 4 chisels, a no4 plane, a cheap crosscut saw, Brace & bits, rule, tape, square and not nuch more. No power tools either to start with. Looking on this site and others you are looking at guys who have built up large collections of tools over a lifetime of woodworking but they mostly all started with just a few basic tools. Some of the others have given good advise on planes. Ebay is a good place to look. Woodriver planes were mentioned and are good. They are made in China by Quenshang and other places sell them apart from woodriver. For a starter rebate plane I would get a Stanley or Record 78. They have a fence so are easier to master than a shoulder plane and cost about half as much. Sharpening chisels and plane irons is one of the first skills you need to have any success or enjoyment from woodworking. There are good old saws on Ebay but that means sharpening also. Cheap hard point saws will get you by to start with. In the early days plan simple projects that can be done with the tools you have then as you gain skill and confidence get another tool or 2 as needed for that next project. Anyhow there is no single right way so just go for it.
Regards
John

Hi Mooncabbage,
Good advice from IanW and Orraloon there.
A case in point
I have a full set of 3/4 drive sockets including strong bar, ratchet handle and a 3/4 rattle gun that I used in my work. But that set started 40 years ago with the strong bar and two sockets. Built up as I needed them the sockets are various brands and some of them are compatible with the rattler.

Geoff.

Originally Posted by IanW

. . . My advice is always the same - plan a couple of projects, think about the tools that might be required and ask the panel for advice on what is essential & what is not. You will still get different answers, because there are many ways to skin the proverbial cat. If you already know how to go about it, think what minimum tool kit would be required to do the job, and what might be desirable, but not essential. . . . . .

Same goes for sets of things as suggested by Boringgeof. I see people buyings large sets of things thinking they'll save money and then using one or two items from the set and never using the rest.

Hey guys, thanks for the feedback.

My primary area of interest is furniture making, particularly pre-20th century styles. My skills are well off being able to pull it off yet, but that's the goal. With that in mind, it's hard to imagine cutting a mortice and tenon WITHOUT some bench chisels. You could use a router, but that's the one power tool I don't have. I also don't plan on buying EVERYTHING at once, but I recognise that there is a certain minimum that's reasonably required, and I need to work towards it. Not having ANY hand planes for example, sucks. And if I don't think about it now, my shop is likely to fill up with machines until I can't afford the requisite hand tools :P

I appreciate the advice with regards to the jack plane. I will look into WoodRiver planes, as well as the cheap Trojan chisels (I wasn't going to go THAT cheap, but then if they're cheap enough they might be useful as levers later on). If I can't wait till april for atleast one plane, is there any merit in buying a cheap one and trying to flatten the sole? If it only gives me one to practice a bit of joinery with, a sacrificial lamb if you will, a Trojan jack plane is dirt cheap from memory. Probably horrible quality, but I'd rather break that than a nice one.

Power tools I am well stocked on. I have as I said, 3 circular saws, one of which is for my Triton MK3 Workbench, plus a Makita 9 1/4" and 7 1/4". I have a large number of drills, I have a power planer (hand-held), two grinders (of the metal cutting variety), an orbital sander, a chainsaw, chainsaw on a stick, hedge trimmer, leaf blower.... and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting. I don't have shop space for a machine like a grinder, it's too specialised, unless it managed to be a really tiny bench mounted version.

I do have another question, is there any merit to these Combination Squares sets? The ones with a centre finder and protractor and whatnot. I have never personally used one before, and could certainly make do without, but if my current combi-square turns out to be not so square and I have to replace it anyway....

PS. Forget the Trojan plane, it's like $60. For that kind of money I could get a brand that isn't recycled tin foil.

PPS. What about this other WoodRiver stuff? What's the general quality like?

Originally Posted by Mooncabbage

. . . I don't have shop space for a machine like a grinder, it's too specialised, unless it managed to be a really tiny bench mounted version.

There are many solutions to saving space with a bench grinder. The simplest one is to mount the grinder onto a board that you clamp to a bench when needed and store it away in a cupboard when you don't. ANother is to make a rotating or flippable bench top with the grinder mounted to the bench top. One way it's a flat bench - they other way the grinder is ready for use.

I have 4 grinders but I do about as much metal work as I do wood work.

Gah, I hate the Australia Tax! It's bullocks. The cheapest price I can find on a WoodRiver No5 in Australia is AUD$200 + p&h from Jim Davey Planes & Sharpening, while Americans can just order one from amazon for $160 + p&h.

No wonder you guys are suggesting I wait to pick up a second hand one. I just feel like I should have ONE plane to start, and finding anything second hand around here is nearly impossible. People just junk everything these days. Might try an antiques shop later, there are a few in the area and at the very least it'll distract me. Although having dealt with the antiques dealers around here before they probably charge more for an old trojan in rough condition than you'd pay for a brand new lie nielsen :P