Thread: Fallen off the wagon again - onto a box mitre plane

Some nice examples here, which can be food for thought.
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Originally Posted by Ironwood

Some nice examples here, which can be food for thought....

But toxic to the wallet!

There is still an amazing number of these things around, despite the fact they haven't been manufactured for over 100 years (at least not in any number).

The Spiers you linked to on Peter's site is an example of what I called "open ended". Interestingly, something I haven't noticed before is the way the rear infill is "waisted" on the Spiers - it looks as if it's intended to let fingers in, so maybe they were more often used with the pushing hand under the blade. Shows how ignorant I am of these things....

I think it would be a lot more manageable to use the Spiers design with 6mm thick sides than bending a continuous side. I could be wrong, you may find bending the 260 brass to be a doddle; you won't ever know if you don't try.

I have a feeling we're not done with mitre planes yet. I look forward to a re-emergence of the breed and many discoveries of their qualities (at other makers' hands, of course... )

Cheers,

Well Brad (& anyone else thinking about using stainless steel for plane making), it does present a challenge compared with mild steel or gauge plate.

Last year (or was it the year before?) I started on a thumb plane using some of Paul's SS for the sole. This is basically just a block plane, so it needs a split sole like the mitre plane I just finished. I'd got as far as cutting out the sole and roughing out the blade bed & glueing on a guide block to file the bevel, but various other matters required my attention, plus my files were in a sorry state, and I'd run out of jewellers saw blades capable of cutting the stuff & also ran out of enthusiasm for the thing. So it had been shuffled about on my bench for so long I was beginning to think it was just part of the scenery!

Well, all this talk of SS above got me thinking maybe I should make an honest attempt to do something with it. So I spent a morning filing off the blade bed & cutting the tongue & grove joint (no pics, I wasn't intending to admit to this build at this stage ). This took a bit of effort with files that are near the end of their lives, but I managed it.

I had enough decent jewellers saw blades to cut out the brass sides, but when I tried to saw out the dovetail sockets in the SS sole, I got nowhere - the blades I had would simply not manage the job. So I had to use an alternative approach which was to hacksaw a series of fillets along the socket, which can be knocked out, leaving a very rough surface:
1 filleting waste.jpg

Making those cuts pretty much demolished a new 32 tpi hacksaw blade - it refused to cut brass when I'd finished on the SS..

To file out the sockets, I like to use a guide block of straight, squared hard wood. Others may be able to just file to the lines & keep them straight & square, but this method helps me a lot, particularly in keeping all of the socket bottoms in a straight line line, which is particularly important with split-sole bodies if you want your sole to end up reasonably flat & straight:
2 Filing to line.jpg

After much filing with ever-dulling files, the sides fit neatly in their sockets:
3 fit.jpg

Repeat for the opposite side & the toe & it's ready to assemble:
4 assembled.jpg

I made up a peening block & set to. It's definitely quite different to peen than mild steel. At first it feels quite soft under the hammer, but as you go along, it seems to move less & less for each blow. It showed no sign of splitting or cracking (unlike the hard brass side material), it just took noticeably longer to get the metal moved over & filling all gaps.
5 peened.jpg

I decided to pause when I thought I was getting close, & file off about half of the excess metal, then I went carefully over all edges again. Whether or not that was necessary, I can't say, but the result is near-perfect. When filed flush, there is no sign of a single pin-hole on either sides or sole:
6 filed flush.jpg

This is what I've come to expect from SS, it is as easy as mild steel in some respects, but quite a lot harder to saw & file. I reckon it is about double the work for hand tools, so if you choose to use it for plane making, be prepared for a good work-out unless you can bring some powered equipment to the party. It's days like this I wish I had a decent linisher!

Cheers,

One day somebody will be able to claim, that he has the actual last plane Ian W. has ever made. He can tell the story of a plane maker in an old Queensland shed, who claimed for years that the current plane he is working at is going to be his last. Only to just make an other one shortly after.

That plane would surely be a well sought after collectable as well [emoji6]

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by IanW

Well Brad (& anyone else thinking about using stainless steel for plane making), it does present a challenge compared with mild steel or gauge plate.

I had enough decent jewellers saw blades to cut out the brass sides, but when I tried to saw out the dovetail sockets in the SS sole, I got nowhere - the blades I had would simply not manage the job. So I had to use an alternative approach which was to hacksaw a series of fillets along the socket, which can be knocked out, leaving a very rough surface. Making those cuts pretty much demolished a new 32 tpi hacksaw blade - it refused to cut brass when I'd finished

Yup; when I made The Nuke I initially tried cutting the dovetails and pins with quality jeweller’s saw blades that immediately blunted; I tried with cheap blades and had the same result so I too ended up using a normal hacksaw. Quality hacksaw blades are worth their weight in gold… I’ve been using Starret bimetallic blades for years as they just keep on cutting. You can also use a cutting compound such as Trefolex to extend blade life and speed up the cut.

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

....… I’ve been using Starret bimetallic blades for years as they just keep on cutting. .....

Chief, the Starret blades have been mentioned a few times and I've looked for them in various places but nobody seems to retail them in this part of the world. The only way to get them is via the interweb & at a cost that seems exorbitant to me. I get by using a cutoff disc as much as possible, it's great for straight runs but there are lots of jobs the discs can't handle safely or as conveniently as the old hacksaw.

Bahco & Sutton blades (the only brands local hardware stores carry), don't seem to last like hacksaw blades once did, but they are tolerable in that respect for cutting 'normal' steel, brass etc. I dislike the thick paint they slather them with (why??) that binds in the cut until it wears off, but what really gets my goat is that it's impossible to cut straight with 2 out of every 3 blades I get. I don't think it's me, cos they seem to go equally to left or right. I can usually force it to stay away from the line, but that invariably ends with a very ragged-looking cut that takes much cleaning up.

Yesterday, I wrecked a piece of brass I was cutting out for the back cross-piece. I could not keep the saw straight & it ended up slightly over the line on one side. I'd marked it out precisely, so by the time I cleaned off the saw marks, it was undersize!

Originally Posted by Chief Tiff

....… You can also use a cutting compound such as Trefolex to extend blade life and speed up the cut.....

I've been tempted to try cutting fluid, but I need some way to dispense it slowly I suppose that could be solved easily enough if I put my mind to it, but it would end up being a very messy business, I fear. I think a pack or two of Starrets is starting to sound like a good alternative, whatever they cost.......

Cheers,

Ian

Looks like you are getting on top of the SS. I might have to call by with some replacement supplies. We don't want you to run out of stainless as you work on your "last" plane.

Regards
Paul

PS: I may have some material suitable for lever caps too. SS polishes up to a mirror finish and could be a real alternative for brass as far as aesthetics are concerned.

Paul, I always thought of you as a good, kind friend, but here you are wanting to supply me with items of self-torture! While I agree SS polishes beautifully, the effort to get a nicely-shaped lever-cap to the polish-able stage would finish my plane-making career for certain - my wonky shoulder would simply give up all pretense of cooperation! I will confess I have thought about making an all-SS plane occasionally, but I've found if I went inside the house & had a cool drink, the thought disappeared promptly.

I can sort-of contemplate a very small all SS plane with a SS lever-cap without physically wincing with pain, and if I have an uncontrollable rush of blood to the head some day, I might try it, but it's not high on my list atm. If & when I do, I have an untouched piece of ~8mm SS that came from a person who lives somewhere to the west of me that I think will do nicely for a small lever cap (in fact I think it will do for about 50 small lever-caps!), and plenty of sheet material in suitable thicknesses for sides & sole....

You will probably get a more favourable response from Ironwood if you offer him a thick chunk of SS about lever-cap size.

Cheers,

Originally Posted by Cklett

.....One day somebody will be able to claim, that he has the actual last plane Ian W. has ever made.......

Ck, the way things are going that will probably be my executor.
If it's one of my children, as is likely, they will be flat out recognising what the object is, let alone any intrinsic value it may have, so you will probably get it for $5.

I do honestly want to quit making planes & spend the rest of my days using what I have. Working metal is not as enjoyable as I once found it, I'm sick & tired of filings & little bits of swarf finding their way onto my woodwork bench, into my shoes (where they inevitably work their way into the skin at some pressure-point, to my great & lasting discomfort), and generally all over the shop! I hate it when I put a chisel down on what I thought was a clean bench, to find when I pick it up that the end has suddenly grown "hairs"! I have also got a rack of dead & near-dead files that need replacing if I attempt to make another plane of any reasonable size, & that won't be a cheap exercise, so I have both the desire and the incentive to quit.

That would be enough to do the trick for any intelligent person, but then I'll see something someone else has made, or some idea will pop into my skull in that dangerous period between being partly awake & fully comatose, and I'll start wondering if there might be enough scraps & leftovers in my various trays & boxes of the stuff........

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Paul, I always thought of you as a good, kind friend, but here you are wanting to supply me with items of self-torture! While I agree SS polishes beautifully, the effort to get a nicely-shaped lever-cap to the polish-able stage would finish my plane-making career for certain - my wonky shoulder would simply give up all pretense of cooperation! I will confess I have thought about making an all-SS plane occasionally, but I've found if I went inside the house & had a cool drink, the thought disappeared promptly.

I can sort-of contemplate a very small all SS plane with a SS lever-cap without physically wincing with pain, and if I have an uncontrollable rush of blood to the head some day, I might try it, but it's not high on my list atm. If & when I do, I have an untouched piece of ~8mm SS that came from a person who lives somewhere to the west of me that I think will do nicely for a small lever cap (in fact I think it will do for about 50 small lever-caps!), and plenty of sheet material in suitable thicknesses for sides & sole....

You will probably get a more favourable response from Ironwood if you offer him a thick chunk of SS about lever-cap size.

Cheers,

Ian

In the interests of continued friendship, I will "hold" the SS at my place in case you should ever need it. . If Brad decides his shoulders are in better nick than yours (they should be as he has a slight age advantage), he only has to send a PM. A small satchel is still around the $10 mark for up to 5Kg anywhere in Oz.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Ian

In the interests of continued friendship, I will "hold" the SS at my place in case you should ever need it. . If Brad decides his shoulders are in better nick than yours (they should be as he has a slight age advantage), he only has to send a PM. A small satchel is still around the $10 mark for up to 5Kg anywhere in Oz.

Regards
Paul

Thanks for that generous offer Paul. I might take you up on that at some stage.
I think I will be using brass on my next plane, which I have mentioned lately will be a miter plane of some descriptions, but I would entertain the idea of building a couple of fully stainless planes after that.
My builds certainly won’t happen as quickly as Ian’s .
I have some high carbon steel coming, that I hope to make some useable blades from, hopefully I will make a start on the said miter plane once I have made a suitable blade for it.

Hi Ian. Nice to know I am not the only one who struggles with Sutton hacksaw blades (what my timber yard carries). Although in their defense, I only recently realised that they are rated for different thickness metals. Have you seen the work of "TerryR" on Lumber Jocks? I am currently wading through a hand plane thread and a few photos of his have popped up (so did a certain gentleman from WA).

Are you referring to the different types (e.g. "bi-metal", "all-hard" etc.), or the tpi, MA? If tpi, I take what it says on the packet with a grain of salt 'cos like any saw, folks will use them differently and with different skill levels. I often find myself without the most appropriate blade in the saw & can't be bothered changing it for one little cut, so I'm guilty of occasional "mis-use".

It's the erratic cutting that annoys me most. Part of it is due to the thick coating they put on them. I've found that once that wears off, the blade usually becomes a bit more controllable but some just seem to get worse & will not follow a line no matter how carefully I saw!

I've learned to live with it by sawing well away from any critical lines, but like a couple of days ago, I do get caught on occasion.

I've found a seller who has packs of 10 Starrets (made in Brazil) for $22. Are these what you use, Chief? They seem a lot less expensive than the ones I found last time I went looking...

Cheers,

The recommended thickness of material being cut. I only checked after a brand new blade snapped at the first catch. I have tried sawing saw plate and it seems impossible.