Thread: Finally getting the upper hand on dovetails

Originally Posted by section1

That's why people fail they try to run before they can walk, I'm learning the basics of joinery I have a life time ahead of me for what you suggest but it's the joinery that makes furniture. Mastering them is my goal at this moment once that's complete everything else will follow suit.

Good Morning Section1

Too true - you need the basics. But never forget a big job is just a series of little jobs. You can equally learn the basics on those little jobs, and the real pleasure is always "I made that".

Nice dovetails. I attended a woodwork show a couple of years ago and Chris Vespers was demonstaring. He made the point that athletes warm up before a match, musicials sing scales before a concert - similarly, he suggested that woodworkers should do a warm-up routine before starting work to get their hand and eye coordinated - He than proceeded to cut some dovetails freehand and very quickly. Just a warm-up routine - he did not want or need any dovetails.



Fair Winds

Graeme

Yes what you say is all true but considering how expensive timber is I'd rather not dive into a serious project until I have mastered the basics, fair enough when ones uses machines it doesn't take much to quickly get the hang of it but hand tools well that's another kettle of fish all together. I'm having a ball making absolutely nothing I know that sounds silly but just practising the basics and getting it right is a big accomplishment because it's these very foundations that form as you said the rest of the project.

Originally Posted by section1

Thank you that was very informative but I didn't cut on the line but to the line having a knife seems to be easier for me as opposed splitting a pencil line. I've found that starting off the cut perfectly straight is the key here...

I'm a bit confused by 'on' & 'to', but I take it you are cutting on the waste side of your knife line? Knife cuts are certainly finer than pencil lines, but either can work once you get used to them. Knife cuts are particularly handy when you are going to perform some other operation like chopping out waste, or planing down to them - they give you tactile help, e.g., something to register the chisel edge in, or a visual clue like the little feather as you reach the line with a plane.

And yes, starting 'straight' is the go. A saw optimised for straight, shallow cuts can have very little set, & it's very difficult to correct if you don't start parallel to your scribe line. It needs concentration when you start out, but becomes second nature after a bit, particularly if you find a saw that suits you & stick with it.

When I'm cutting a set of d'tails, I 'warm up' by cutting the tails first. With these, you only have to concentrate on keeping the cut square front to back; don't worry about small deviations in the angle of the tail, because you won't see them on the finished joint (unless you are waay off!), & you are going to scribe the pins off them. By the time you've cut a few sets of tails, you should have the feel of the saw, and be able to cut the pins very accurately, resulting in a nice, tight fit.

As to how much practice you need before launching into projects, that's a very individual thing, & you should proceed at the pace you feel comfortable with. I'm afraid I'm the impatient type, and probably always move a bit too quickly, but I suppose that's how I learnt how to fix mistakes...

Originally Posted by section1

...Where do I find crow's ash and is it affordable...

Lazarides usually has some, and there's other places closer to you that probably have it. As to affordability, decent wood just isn't cheap anywhere, any more.....

Cheers,

Very nice Dovetails. I like the Japanese pull saw also but my favorite dovetail saw is the 14 tpi Veritas. It will cut dovetails for you while you make your morning tea. The 20 tpi is good but the 14 tpi is better.

I've never tried a veritas saw I use an LN dovetail saw but I found the dozuki to be the best for shoulders it just fit's snuggly in line and leaves a very clean cut. But hey if you know how to use your saws any of them will work great. I just another one more a couple of nights ago and they also turned out ok but not great just ok. Now I'm tackling with through mortises I'm getting a snug fit but the gaps at the ends are disgusting so it's practise, practise, practise.

My aim is to build a Japanese Style Hall table I saw in the Australian woodsmith mag. issue 107 the latest one, it's nice to see dimesnions in mm for a change working in inches isn't hard but mm is so much simpler not sure why the yanks find it so difficult to grasp.

Originally Posted by section1

..... Now I'm tackling with through mortises I'm getting a snug fit but the gaps at the ends are disgusting so it's practise, practise, practise.
.....

Good Morning Section1

You might find this video on cutting mortise and tennon by Paul Sellers interesting.
Paul Sellers cuts a mortise and tenon joint by hand, in oak - YouTube
I like has videos, even when I do not agree with him. His skill level makes things look real easy.



Fair Winds

Graeme

I have tried his method on cheap stanley chisels but I wouldn't be game to do it with LN ones besides I have mortising chisels so there's no need but I didn't know until I watcched chris scwhartz video on hand tools the LN mortising chisels are primarily designed for softwoods.

But anyhow Paul Sellers makes it look so easy I know he usually has an unconvential approach but 50years in the trade gives him that right. What I think personally if he were to advertise LN and veritas like Tom Fidgen and Chris and even Shannon Rodgers has started he would most probably be accepted in their little circle of friends but good on him he's got mutliple woodworking classes going on both in the U.S. and England so he must be doing something right. Plus I would love to be trained by the guy even Tom Fidgen he's a legend I ended up buying his book just outstanding work.

Amazingly though the issues I've had were cutting a crisp shoulder line that was paralell on both sides and thanks to practise I have achieved that but now it's cutting that damn tenon without putting a twist in it that's giving me a headache.

Nice work. Wish I had the patience to keep trying.

Originally Posted by section1

My aim is to build a Japanese Style Hall table I saw in the Australian woodsmith mag. issue 107 the latest one, it's nice to see dimesnions in mm for a change working in inches isn't hard but mm is so much simpler not sure why the yanks find it so difficult to grasp.

In case you might like it also ... Rope & Saw: College of the Redwoods Fine Furniture: Week 10 and 11

That place looks like a lot of fun I can't believe that guy mortised through his finger.