flattening a plane sole

**mic-d** · 19th February 2009, 04:25 PM

This is a small part of a much larger question I'm pondering, it probably should go in the quizz section but I'll start here.

At some time in the past, the handplane was invented for the purpose of smoothing timber (amongst other roles I suppose)but those early affairs might have been quite rough. At some point some bright spark realised that a very flat sole would allow him (or her) to make very flat boards. (Actually I don't know if this was relatively recently in the plane's evolution or over 4-500 years ago). Anyway, what do you suppose that person would have used for a flat surface to make the sole a flat surface? There's not too many very flat surfaces naturally occuring in the world. I've thought of a facet of particular types of rock or perhaps the surface of a molten and solidified substance? How do you think it might have been done?

OK part 2 of my question.
I suspect that with the industrial revolution, the requirement for and occurance of, flat surfaces in and on machinery parts would have skyrocketed. But you need a flat surface to make a flat surface; the machine that makes the flat surface must incorporate a flat surface. But how was that machine made? (cylindrical shapes are easy with a lathe). And once it was made, and it was used to make other machines that could make flat surfaces, how was the level of precision increased, ie how was a higher tolerance machine made from a lower tolerance machine? And if machines were propogated this way, should we be able to trace lineages back to an "Adam and Eve" machine or a few machines? (that probably don't exist any longer)

I know, I think weird thoughts

Cheers
Michael

**Waldo** · 19th February 2009, 04:46 PM

Weird thoughts?

Should poke into my brain.

Like how can the universe be infinite, how can it have no borders or walls?

You've hot on the head exactly my thoughts as I was reading over your post. Pouring molten metal into any mould, so long as the mould was perfectly level would have given a perfect surface.

Some rocks like granite split perfectly into a flat surface, marble too. Like things to keep perfect time around the world, and like each country has a set of weights perfectly measured to the original. The weigths I think are perfect spheres, and are kept in France.

The perplexities of life.

**Sawdust Maker** · 19th February 2009, 04:51 PM

Too hard for me, no idea

what if you had something like a jointer, but without the body/base but with, say, 4 rods parallel to the blade and lined up parallel to each other and arranged on the same plane, with two each side of the blade. you could then move your plane bed along these rods and over the blade, taking a shaving, to make it perfectly flat.

Pretty sure this doesn't make sense

**Thumbthumper** · 19th February 2009, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Waldo

You've hot on the head exactly my thoughts as I was reading over your post. Pouring molten metal into any mould, so long as the mould was perfectly level would have given a perfect surface.

Almost perfect......wouldn't it follow the curvature of the earth ?

Splitting hairs I know

**Sparhawk** · 19th February 2009, 04:59 PM

The flatness of the master item may not have changed, just how accurate that we can measure it.

Think of it this way, we have the "master meter" sitting somewhere in France, 200 years ago I could take my measuring device with 3 significant figures and calibrate to it. Now I can take the same "master meter", and calibrate to it with the latest technology to 20 significant figures. The length of the meter hasn't changed, just how accurate we can measure it.

**jimbur** · 19th February 2009, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Thumbthumper

Almost perfect......wouldn't it follow the curvature of the earth ?

That explains problems with joining long boards

Jim

**Socrates** · 19th February 2009, 05:04 PM

I've just had a flashback to the eighties when we would contemplate hidden universes in our fingernails. What was the brand of cigarettes we used smoke back then?

**mic-d** · 19th February 2009, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Waldo

Weird thoughts?

Should poke into my brain.

Like how can the universe be infinite, how can it have no borders or walls?

You've hot on the head exactly my thoughts as I was reading over your post. Pouring molten metal into any mould, so long as the mould was perfectly level would have given a perfect surface.

Some rocks like granite split perfectly into a flat surface, marble too. Like things to keep perfect time around the world, and like each country has a set of weights perfectly measured to the original. The weigths I think are perfect spheres, and are kept in France.

The perplexities of life.

Waldo, I think we might have both had someone like this in our childhood:

The mobius strip is another one that freaks me out.

Anyway back on topic, I wondered about molten something or other, whether on cooling, the surface deformed due to shrinkage or other factors (think ingots, they don't look terribly flat).

I posed the second part of my question to a mate and he suggested it was much easier to make flat things when they thought the earth was flat.

Cheers
Michael

**Waldo** · 19th February 2009, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by mic-d

Waldo, I think we might have both had someone like this in our childhood

, but not just my childhood.

**Waldo** · 19th February 2009, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Sparhawk

The flatness of the master item may not have changed, just how accurate that we can measure it.

Think of it this way, we have the "master meter" sitting somewhere in France, 200 years ago I could take my measuring device with 3 significant figures and calibrate to it. Now I can take the same "master meter", and calibrate to it with the latest technology to 20 significant figures. The length of the meter hasn't changed, just how accurate we can measure it.

Saw a programme on SBS a while ago now where they were recalibrating the sphere and making a new one out of solid carbide or something and to the enth degree that went into making it.

**petersemple** · 19th February 2009, 05:25 PM

It's a bit off topic, but I sometimes wonder the same thing about food. I mean, who first thought: "that thing that comes out of a chicken's bum? I'm gonna try eating that." There are a lot of weird things we eat that I enjoy, but sure wouldn't have been the first to ever try.

Peter

**mic-d** · 19th February 2009, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by petersemple

It's a bit off topic, but I sometimes wonder the same thing about food. I mean, who first thought: "that thing that comes out of a chicken's bum? I'm gonna try eating that." There are a lot of weird things we eat that I enjoy, but sure wouldn't have been the first to ever try.

Peter

You might eat that stuff, I prefer to put it on the garden

Cheers
Michael

**seriola** · 19th February 2009, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by petersemple

It's a bit off topic, but I sometimes wonder the same thing about food. I mean, who first thought: "that thing that comes out of a chicken's bum? I'm gonna try eating that." There are a lot of weird things we eat that I enjoy, but sure wouldn't have been the first to ever try.

Peter

never would have got a gurnsey if they saw the current state of my chooks date

**Sawdust Maker** · 19th February 2009, 09:11 PM

what was Italian cooking like before the new world was discovered ie before tomatoes?

**mic-d** · 19th February 2009, 09:24 PM

From a serious question to a chooks bum in 11 posts and talking about cooking in 14 posts

Where to next?
Cheers
Michael

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