Thread: Froe questions

Hi Sumi
Have a couple of photos on this page. Large heavey knife with a handle at 90deg to the blade. The blade is struck with a hammer or mallet. THey were used to make shingles for roofing etc or any where you wanted to split timber. Chair legs and back straps etc.
Hope this helps.

I am no authority sumu. I have been researching froes and adzes' etc lately and came across a site called Green Woodworking. In an article regarding "riving" is this statement; "The froe is a remarkable tool. A principal advantage is its ability to assist in controlling the direction of rived splits. Almost all riving is done with equal mass on either side of the splitting edge. However, if a split starts to run to one side it may possibly be redirected by applying pressure to the stock's more massive side. This is accomplished by levering the handle of the froe so that blade's heel presses against the massive side of the split."

Here is the link, http://www.greenwoodworking.com/riving/riving.htm
Note Figure 23.

Hope this helps.

prozac

Thanks guys, really good articles!

In both of those articles, there is quite a lot of attention put into froe control during the splitting.

What do you think, is froe more easily controlled if the bevels do not extend to the back of the blade, but only halfway, or less?

I have understood also that to an expert froe user, even strongly wavy wood patterns and difficult grain is not that much of a problem.

I dream of as dustless wood cutting as possible . If I could have my wood at first by splitting it into raw planks and then I could join and plane them, it would be kinda cool.

Thanks again!

sumu

sumu, again I stress that I am no expert in this field. In fact I originally thought that a froe must be swung...yeah ok dumb as a stump. (I now know of-course that you must throw the wood at the froe) How surprised I was to find that the blade working edge was perpendicular and on the opposite side of the blade to the handle!

My thoughts are that the blade has only a nominal bevel as in an axe blade (broad axe, carpenter's axe (side axe)). The control over the direction of the cut is controlled by;
1. Choice of the correct start point on the endgrain (see article)
2. The way the back of the blade is struck with the froe club
3. The handle of the froe. The length of the handle relative to the width of the blade gives the user a mechanical advantage in controlling the blade.

Note point #2. The correct use of the froe is to split the timber along the grain and not to cut across grain. This is achieved by choosing your start point correctly. The idea is to split, not cut the timber.

One last point. I think the idea is to use green timber, not dry.

prozac

I have found some more sumu. This is taken from a forum on the Country Workshops site - http://countryworkshops.org/

Country Workshops makes and sells a small froe with these specifications.
Blade 1/4 x 1-1/4 x 8" mild steel
Double bevels with 30 degree enclosed angle.

prozac

Originally Posted by sumu

Thanks guys, really good articles!

In both of those articles, there is quite a lot of attention put into froe control during the splitting.

What do you think, is froe more easily controlled if the bevels do not extend to the back of the blade, but only halfway, or less?

I have understood also that to an expert froe user, even strongly wavy wood patterns and difficult grain is not that much of a problem.

I dream of as dustless wood cutting as possible . If I could have my wood at first by splitting it into raw planks and then I could join and plane them, it would be kinda cool.

Thanks again!

sumu

Hi Sumu,
These are good questions and it is interesting to read the responses.
I don't have, and have never used a froe, but I have always understood that this tool was used primarily for shingle making in very straight grained timber, as well as for splitting short lengths of the same.
I think that longer planks would be a handfull with a froe, so you would be better off with a saw.
Anyone I have seen using a froe has operated on short lengths of timber - anywhere up to a metre or so. I think that anything longer is going to produce some wildly crooked planks that will lose a lot in the planing and finishing - perhaps even more than the sawdust made in the sawing.
Just my 2c worth
Regards from Tele Point
SG

Here is another article that may explain more.
http://www.craftsofnj.org/toolshed/a...on%20Froes.htm

Also some photos that show someone using a froe. Would that be where the phrase "toing and froeing" came from?

prozac

sumu a couple more photos. If you look closely you can see the bevel of the blade.
The related article is here - http://www.heartofthewood.com/riving1.htm

prozac

ps: Some may be interested in this "barn raising" photo sequence. http://www.petergalbertchairmaker.com/barnraising.html

The traditional froe thumping tool is called a 'beetle' in English, and was made from the junction of several branches with the trunk of a tree, the handle being on of the branches left a suitable length. The interlocking grain from the multiple branches tended to stop the thing from splintering, and in some trees the cores of branches seem to be harder.

Gddday Prozac! (and others as well )

You found some serious stuff on froes and how to use them . It is absolutely certain my tool set will include some froes of different sizes in the present future .

Check out the Figure 17 here: http://www.greenwoodworking.com/riving/riving.htm That edge-moulded panel is something to look for, right?

Originally Posted by prozac

My thoughts are that the blade has only a nominal bevel as in an axe blade (broad axe, carpenter's axe (side axe)). The control over the direction of the cut is controlled by;
1. Choice of the correct start point on the endgrain (see article)
2. The way the back of the blade is struck with the froe club
3. The handle of the froe. The length of the handle relative to the width of the blade gives the user a mechanical advantage in controlling the blade.

I think all of those arguments make the very starting point for further investigations and how to start practicing.

One last point. I think the idea is to use green timber, not dry.

Yes, I think the splitting is really much easier and splitting line would follow more likely grain anyway when timber is wet (and/or frozen, like during wintertime hereabouts. BTW, who says not to put timber in a freezer cabinet anyway?

Ok ok, I know one who will say NO )


Prozac, here you pointed out the froe bevel configuration: http://www.heartofthewood.com/riving2.htm

Those double bevels extend about halfway the blade width, and by judging the picture, the region where bevel ends is not that sharp stepped. I think I see a bit roundiness there. Double bevel angle seems to be about the same as with hunting knife, maybe 20 degrees in total. In that advertise statement, there was mentioned 30 degrees, but those bevels looks more acute than 30.

Blade edge is probably no razor, too, but might be just reasonably sharp. In fresh timber with bark and everything and working outdoors while tossing the wood around there is sand and such, so there is no sense to polish the edge. But polishing the blade bevels and sides to reduce friction would actually make sense.


Scribbly Gum, I believe you are right too when making a point using a froe for splitting shorter wood. Despite that, there is still very much applications left .


Bsrlee, Thanks for the tip! I wonder what species of trees would make some better beetles ?

Some trees when cut halfway (in the name of that damn "artistic gardening" ) will grow a dense bush of small branches in the cut. I wonder would that kind of wood make a tough beetle?

Kippis,

sumu

Hi there,
Have been reading this thread with interest, and some excellent info has been turned up. I might try and make another, the one I made a few years back was a failure!
Not having seen a real one close I only bevelled one side, and then not at the right angle- needs to be more acute. It was more like a block splitter than an axe, and when I swung the beetle it jarred my arm really badly!! I then reverted to a steel gimp hammer, but the tool was a dud so I gave up.
The timbers I have heard of being split with a froe seem to be those best quarter sawn, with predominent medullary rays, like oak (Quercus) and she-oak (Allocasuarina). I assume then that there is a splitting "weakness", or to put it another way, a sweet spot through which to rive. Some of our Euc's with their interlocking grain would be fair buggers.
My only other comment is the handle seems more for levering the split timber apart than working as a guide, (the split is going to follow the grain anyway, which is one advantage of riving over cutting through grain, which weakens it) but I guess it does offer control too.

Look forward to seeing your home made tool Sumu!

Cheers,

bsrlee, at last someone who knows what they are talking about!

sumu, I agree angle appears to be around 20'. Whilst the blade edge may or may not need to be razor sharp I would expect that it would of necessity be fine. Can anyone help here brslee?

For us novices I think the following advice is as important as it is funny; "Never reach into the split until the wood has given up and fallen open. A metal wedge can fly back out of the log and strike you. Or, your hand may be trapped." Log eats man!

prozac

Its good for the ego to be thought some sort of 'expert', but its just that I used to read fairly prodigious quantities of books (24/7 shift comms worker) and have an interest in traditional and obsolete crafts - and a mind retentive of trivia.

The easiest book I can lay my hands on is Alex W. Bealer's Old Ways of Working Wood - its been kicking around in various editions for 30-some years and it is still in print - $9.99 at Amazon. It is heavily into North-Eastern US practice - even to sticking your bare hand into the split while correcting the run . It is however fairly comprehensive in details from selecting the tree to making 'rustic' furniture. Bealer also claims that a froe was BLUNT, not sharpened but a bit like a blunt axe, and had no steel edge, just plain iron.

There was a better book by a fellow called Hill, OOP for 30-some years, but my copy is buried at the back of a corner bookcase - the title is something like 'English Country Crafts' and it briefly covers the English way of doing things in a wide variety of crafts from flower braiding thru blacksmithing to wheelwrighting - not in great detail but in enough detail that you could make something without loosing any important body parts. He covers using the froe in the section on green wood and traditional forest crafts like bodging.

I used a froe a few years ago when making a windsor chair by hand using no electric tools. As a female I foudn it an extrmely useful tool for the splittingof logs to a size where they could be shaved prior to turning on a pole lathe. It was daunting at first but surprisingly easy to use. I simply placed the froe across the centre of the log diameter, then hit it hard with a timber mallet, which gave me a clean split. I continued the proceedure until I had my eight pie pieces ready for shaving to make legs.
a helpful link may be www.rarechairs.com.au/ - and email Howard for more detailed info

Originally Posted by sumu

Hello,

Could someone share some insight on a good froe and how to use it?

A froe is not very common device hereabouts where I live, but it looks very effective and useful tool.

I could make one to see how it works, but I think some better background info would be very useful before making one.

Thanks!

sumu