Thread: Fume bluing two planes

Given the bluing transforms iron oxide into that black substance, is there a ready means to encourage a fine even patina of rust for it to work on?

Say, paint it with some sort of goo that hyper-rusts, but only a bit, then do the fuming?


I say this as I seen something like this, very annoyingly, on iron parts I've scrubbed and then used my heat gun to dry.... it forms an almost instant fine layer of brown.

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Given the bluing transforms iron oxide into that black substance, is there a ready means to encourage a fine even patina of rust for it to work on?

Say, paint it with some sort of goo that hyper-rusts, but only a bit, then do the fuming?


I say this as I seen something like this, very annoyingly, on iron parts I've scrubbed and then used my heat gun to dry.... it forms an almost instant fine layer of brown.

There are many ways to generate the orange rust.

Just leaving the steel exposed to air works (slowly) but don't get it wet as this produces spots and even pits.

One way is to use a hydrogen peroxide and salt mixture - there are vids of this on You tube
I detail the process and some results here
More metal bluing - Page 4
It's very fast and would be fine for general protection but I don't think the results are as good or as long lasting (rust resiatance) as the fume bluing method that I detail here
More metal bluing

I've tried spraying the steel in air with various dilute acids and water but that's not very fast.
Spraying with more concentrated acids causes patchy results, pits and ruins fine detail.

The pro method is to heat the item in caustic at 600º This is very fast but even though I'm game I'm not that game.

The cold fume method works well because it generates a very fine grained red rust, no lumps or spots or pits.
The resulting black oxide layer is then thin and hard.
I've tried speeding up the fuming by using a warming plate/box that the fuming tank sits on but I don't think it works as well and has in some trials led to fine pitting.

The slower it is done the better the final result - this means it seems to work slightly better in winter than in summer!

Here are the next two planes I'm working on

The Smaller one is a Falcon 9" and the other a Flacon #5 that my uncle left me in 1967
Falconsoriginal.jpeg

Here are the bodies after electrolysis.
The pits in the base of the #5 are probably original.
The slight amounts of rust is the result of being out of the electrolysis tank for a a few hours .
When bluing this doesn't matter as the next stage involves putting them in the cold fume tank to make them rust,.

Falcons.jpeg

Below are the frogs.
The faintly rusty one is from the #5 - the other is from the 9" and as you can see its die cast alloy.
It was not rusty at all but painted bright red, but I did not realise it was die cast and put it in the electrolysis tank any - nothing happened - even the paint did not bubble and when I tested it out with a magnet - nothing!
I had to use paint stripper to get the paint off - I'm just going to paint it black as it cannot be blued is the usual manner.

Falconsfrogs.jpeg

It turns out that all red frogs in the box are die cast alloy and the single black painted one is steel.

Finally finished bluing the two falcons.
Still a bit of oil sheen on them that needs to be removed.
The Frog on the LHS is the alloy frog from the smaller plane.
I couldn't blue that so I painted it with satin epoxy - it looks really plasticky in conparison to teh two blue plane bodies.
Falcons2.jpg

On the side of the smaller plane I found these initials/abbreviations.
INITIALS.jpg

Finally got around to making up a rod for the 78 fence.
Thanks to Bueller for the dimensions.

The rod is 5/16" SS - the threaded end is 1/4" BSF 28.

Fencerod.jpg

Now I have two more (plus the fences) to make, one for my other 78 and one for my mates.

Hi Bob. This question probably has an obvious answer but what is the hole at the end of the rod for? I assume it's to allow for inserting a "handle" to twist the rod but I have found that finger tight works just fine for me. Nice job and it won't rust

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

Hi Bob. This question probably has an obvious answer but what is the hole at the end of the rod for? I assume it's to allow for inserting a "handle" to twist the rod but I have found that finger tight works just fine for me.

I agree with your assumption.

Nice job and it won't rust

Thanks

Spent some time working on the replacement fences, stops and screws for the 78's

I decided to go all steel because I want to blue them

Both my mates and my recently refurbished 78s needs both the vertical stop and the horizontal fences.
I also have a Stanley 78 that is missing the fence rod, screws for the stops and fences.

So 3 rods, 6 screws, 2 stops and 2 fences needed.

Here's where I am st so far.
The rods (1) are done as per previous post
2 fences (F) are almost complete - need a touch more milling, sanding and polishing - hogged out from a piece of 3mm scrap angle iron.
3 screws(S) cut
One depth stop (DF) started - just roughly hogged out from a piece of angle iron.
Fences.jpg

The 3/16" BSW screws are made from a piece of scrap steel 12mm rod - the fact that they are small and the scrap steel wasn't the easiest to turn
made them extra fiddly. I almost threw the first one away and was thinking of "brass" - for the remaining 3 I'm going to look for something easier to work with.
Screw2.jpg

So cool Bob, thanks for sharing! If you're free this weekend I'd love to drop by and take a look at your progress, I need to drop that pipe die off anyway. If you're busy that's fine too I'll just drop them past and dash.

Love seeing parts like these made for the old planes, some of them are pretty useless without all the accessories so it's nice to see them live again!

I vote for brass for the thumbscrews, Bob. If you aren't aiming for "authenticity" it makes far more sense to me, easier to work, as you say, and also never rusts & seizes on you. (well, you can get brass to corrode & jam if you really try hard, but it's unlikely ever to happen in a reasonably waterproof shed. )

I suppose brass doesn't have the tensile strength of steel, but it's got plenty enough for this sort of job.

BTW, I discovered soon after I got my mini lathe that the carriage rods in old inkjet printers make great raw material for shafts like you've just made. For those who don't have a lathe, you may be able to find shafts that are just the right diameter for what you need, they come in a wide variety of sizes. I got a heap just recently from a place that recycles E-waste, as a thankyou for a favour I did them....

Cheers,

Thanks yeah I’ll be around maybe message me before you come.

There’s no doubt that brass is easy to machine and although it doesn’t corrode it eventual dulls and can look tired even after a year or so. I can of course lacquer it but Depending on how much the steel is handled the bluing last for many years. Might go with brass for one of the plane.

thanks for the tip on the printer rods.

A bit more progress on these.
Some more machining on one of the home made fences

All 6 screws made.
The machining on one of the fences is almost done -the other one still has not been tackled.

Update.jpg

The screws with the partly un-knurled section are for the depth stops.

After making 4 steel screws I decide to make a pair out of brass. Might give these to my mate for his plane.

The machining part was nice and easy
BUT
The 3/16" threading die I had would not start/take on bras, on close inspection it was just tearing out the start because the die was blunt!
Funny how it could be forced to start on a steel blank but not a brass one.

Fortunately Bueller came to rescue with a working die.

Yeah, it seems counter-intuitive, but blunt files also baulk at brass, as I'm sure you know already. A file that is starting to become dull, but still cutting steel ok, needs a lot more pressure to make it bite into brass, so I guess dies need to be sharp too. My dies are still in pretty good shape because they've been used almost exclusively on brass, but I have found I need to put a more distinct chamfer on the brass compared with steel, to encourage the die to start cleanly...

You have invested a lot of work (& no doubt had a lot of fun!) in replacing these lost parts, Bob, I hope they survive for at least another generation.......

Cheers,